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But Josh Isn't Jewish. Why Should We Raise Our Children As Jews?
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| But Josh Isn't Religious |
Author: InterfaithFamily.com Editor (---.home.net)
Date: 06-22-00 15:02
Post your responses here to Roberta Calderone's article, "But Josh isn't religious. Why should we raise our children as Jews?" |
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| Josh isn't Jewish!!! |
Author: Teri Robinson (---.as.wcom.net)
Date: 06-25-00 00:57
I truly enjoyed this article and can certainly relate to Josh's feelings. Judiasm, to me is more about tradition, that religion. I also don't go to temple unless its for a wedding, or bar mitzvah, but in my heart I always feel and know that I am Jewish.
I practice what is comfortable to me, like ensuring the family all comes together for holidays, we eat the majority of traditional foods, light candles at Hanakah and feel joy in my heart whenever I hear or see anything to do with Jewish family life.
I don't have a need to practice in a Temple, or have instruction from a Rabbi.
Being Jewish is instilled in you from birth and I believe it stays a part of you for life.
Its funny, sometimes you think every one else is "practicing", so reading this story reaffirms what I have always believed.
Thank you for sharing, and I wish Patricia and Josh good luck in resolving this issue.
Teri. |
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Author: Susan (---.milwaukee.k12.wi.us)
Date: 06-25-00 10:46
It is true that one remains a Jew even if one doesn't live a Jewish life, pray, attend synagogue, keep kosher, or follow any of the other Jewish rituals, but it is highly unlikely that one's children, much less one's grandchildren, will be Jews if one doesn't.
Many people make the mistake of thinking that practicing the Jewish religion is something we do for <B> past </b> generations. Actually, it's something we do for <B> future </b> generations. Most people first fall in love and get married at a stage in their lives when religion is as irrelevant to them as it will ever be. When they've thought about it and been through a few more of the experiences life has to offer, such as the birth of children or the death of their parents, they may find that religion becomes much more important to them than they could have predicted. Questioning, seeking, and doubting may be necessary when one is young and trying to make some sense of this world, but eventually, it can be very comforting to find a system which offers some of the answers. Isn't it a good idea for parents to provide their children with some kind of secure foundation and an opportunity to employ or uncover some of the wisdom which our ancestors left for us? As someone who was raised in an "interfaith family" I certainly wish that my parents had done that much for me.
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| Josh isnt religious |
Author: George Maxwell (---.tmns.net.au)
Date: 07-01-00 11:35
I loved the article, and have a few thoughts on it.
I wonder if the issue doesnt come down to one of racial identity over religious identity?
After all, you often see people who feel particularly proud of their origins wanting to bring up their children with a link to these origins, so as to keep the tradition alive.
I can think of numerous examples of this from different cultures, whether it be people of Irish descent wanting to teach their children Irish folk dances and songs, or Greek people insisting that their children learn to speak Greek.
Maybe if Patricia could think of Josh's Father's wishes in this light, it may help her to understand his and accept his desire to raise Josh as a Jew.
I think the main thing is that no one feels they are being marginalised in the family, or made to feel that their background/culture is any less important than another.
Ultimately children bought up in interfaith/interracial marriages that I have known have benefited enourmously from the diversity of their upbringings, and are often extremely proud of both sides of their families.
After all as Bernard Baruch, who also had an interfaith marriage, said: "There's no joy without alloy"! |
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| Inter-marriage and religious practice |
Author: Father John Walsh (---.montreal.primus.ca)
Date: 07-04-00 09:59
Dear Roberta,
You have again stimulated my thought process. It seems to me that your article and the reactions posted center on the issue of religious practice, its importance or lack of improtance, and how it helps defines "religious." I suggest that the approach is too restricting and requires other wider perameters. The practing Jew or the pracicing Christian may not be a true believer, whilethe non-practicing Jew or Christian may be a true believer. I would propose that we are dealing with faith and not exclsuively with practice. Faith is a way of life not a set or rituals. Faith cannot be reduced to rites that can be devoid of "life-questions" so that "religion" will distance itelf from people. Faith must touch the nitty-gritty of our lives, day to day existence, or it will soon be judged non-esential and wtihtout any ground in reality.
Young couples may see themselves as non-practicing Jews or Christians because religion has been associated, almost exclsuively, wih the place of worship, Church,m Synagogue or Mosque. Religion is not exclusively a religion of worship but is meant to be faith-full or faith-filled reflecting on the record of faith contained in the Hebrew Covenant (Old Testament) or the Christian Covenant (New Testament). Thus, the heart of one's faith reflection is the development of a spirituality that allows faith to be meaningful in our everyday lives.
I would conclude by saying that, unfortunately, religious gestures, devoid of faith, are not sufficient to seal the covenant of marriage. The wondrous Jewish notion of "peoplehood" allows for a wide interpretation of inclusivity of atheists but cannot obviate the wondrous spiritual reality of Ex 3:1, "I am who I am," or "I will be who I will be," interpreted as, "I am the G-d who is active in the midst of my people."
In inter-faith marriages there is a golden opportunitym for couples to discover how God's love passes through two human hearts that are committed to a Jewish and Christian way of life.
Shalom. |
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Author: Susan (---.milwaukee.k12.wi.us)
Date: 07-06-00 08:38
I'm afraid Father John Walsh is trying to compare apples with oranges. We're not discussing the Catholic concept of religious ritual as opposed to religious faith, much less the relative importance of home and House of Worship. The Jewish way of life is very much but not exclusively one of performing certain prescribed "rituals." When one is trying to pass one's Jewish heritage along to one's children, it isn't what's inside one's heart that they see, but it's the actions which one performs. Small children can see their parents making the blessings for the various foods, saying the grace after meals, giving charity, studying Torah, lighting candles, putting on t'fillin, or conducting a Passover Seder. By the way, these are all "rituals" in the home. Perceiving their parents' theological understanding is something that doesn't come until much later in life. I know that the Christian point of view places less emphasis on the actions of a religion and more on belief, and theoretically it would be possible for Josh and Patricia's to raise their children with elements of both religions, behaving Jewish but believing Christian. Perhaps Father Walsh and Patricia would like to see that, but I'm sure it would be unacceptable to Josh.
Josh is obviously interested in trying to pass along his Jewish heritage to his children to the extent that he will be able. He has an obligation to do so. Of course there's no guarantee that he'll be successful, but that doesn't relieve him of his obligations. Especially if he's half-hearted about it, they may grow up to reject it, but that should be their choice, not Patricia's. I certainly hope that Patricia develops an understanding of why Josh's Jewish heritage is important to him. If she can't, then I think he'd be better off trying to find someone who can. |
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| Josh isn't Jewish |
Author: Noreen Groulx (---.cvx29-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net)
Date: 07-13-00 20:47
I enjoyed this article because it really made
me feel good about the way I feel about being
Jewish.
I am married to a Catholic man, who is not very religious at this time of his life. He partakes of all of our family celebrations and traditions. He knows I am not religious but respects me for the way I observe my religion.
We don't have children, however, there is a lot of interfaith marriages in our family and I believe the child should be given an education and information about the religions of both parents. You can never have too much knowledge about religion. I think it helps prepare you for the different people you will meet in your lifetime.
I really enjoyed reading Roberta's article
and look forward to more articles from her. |
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| Josh needs to take responsibility |
Author: Andrea (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 08-02-00 13:15
As the Christian wife of a Jew, I have gone through the same reasoning. I considered converting; I attended synogogue regularly, taught myself Hebrew, etc. for years. I think it is a ridiculous assertion that Judaism has no requirements that Jews conduct their lives in a certain manner, whereas Christianity requires that Christians observe the Sacraments. Jews who choose to not follow the Ten Commandments are sinners just in the same way that Christians who do not follow the teachings of Christ are. To say, "I want a Jewish home, but I don't want to be observant" is a cop-out. A person who makes this statement is being irresponsible, immature and lazy. Having a Jewish home isn't the same as having a certain decorating style. It's not for show, it's to carry out G-d's commandments. G-d DOES require that Jews observe the Sabbath (this is not a Christian notion) and observe certain traditions (circumcision, keeping kosher, etc.) You cannot take G-d and his commandments out of Judaism and expect the non-Jewish partner to acquiesce. Why should I convert to be a non-observant Jew? The Torah pretty clearly states that one should not convert unless he/she is going to observe the laws; the non-observant convert is worse of in G-d's eyes than one who does not convert. If you want a Jewish home, you need to take responsibility and be observant. If all you want to do is go through the Shabbat rituals, observe Passover and the High Holidays at home, there is no reason why one can't do this and have a Christian home (these observances are not contrary to Christianity, and many churches encourage them). Reducing Judaism to these rituals and removing the theology can, in effect, promote a Christian home. |
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| Andrea's posting |
Author: Ed Case (---.home.net)
Date: 08-03-00 12:20
There is more than one way to be an "observant" Jew. While I respect the view of Andrea and of traditional Jews that being observant means following all of the traditional requirements of Judaism, for example keeping kosher, the Reform movement, for example, does not consider keeping kosher to be a required element of being an observant Jew. There is more than one way. Most American Jews are not traditionally observant. Many intermarried non-Jews are observant, and many converts to Judaism are observant, some in the traditional sense, others not.
In my opinion, it is very unfortunate and unacceptable for Andrea to cast aspersions on the observance level or the prospective observance level of other Jews or of intermarried people. To say that someone is "irresponsible, immature and lazy" if he or she is not as observant as Andrea thinks he or she should be, is hostile and counter-productive.
The purpose of InterfaithFamily.com is to provide a welcoming and supportive place for people dealing with the issues that interfaith families face. We encourage interfaith families to make Jewish choices, while respecting differences. We strongly disagree with Andrea's suggestion that interfaith families should not participate in Jewish life unless they are traditionally observant, and we think that her view is very much a minority view among the Jewish community today. |
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| Ed Case's response |
Author: Andrea (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 08-03-00 12:43
In my perhaps too harsh comments, the spirit of my respone was lost. I did not mean that in order to have a Jewish home, one has to take the Conservative or Orthodox approach, and I apologize if that is how my remarks came across. My point is, a secular Jewish home (i.e. traditions of Hannukah and Passover only) does not necessarily have to be Jewish. These traditions are consistent with Christian doctrine. If the goal is to have a Jewish home, I think it is EXTREMELY important to involve the non-Jewish partner in the Jewish community in an organized fashion lest the Christian (or other faith) partner feel that he/she has abandoned a former faith for ancient traditions. What I'm trying to say, is that the Jewish partner needs to take the reigns and offer some religious direction; it's a little unfair to say to the non-Jew, "I want a Jewish home, but you have to do the work." I guess the pointed nature of my former comments stems from my personal experience. I got tired of dragging my husband to synagogue and policing his Passover meals. He said he wanted a Jewish home, but having a Jewish home to him simply meant having a home without a Christmas tree. |
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| ... |
Author: susan (a different one :) ) (---.zeal.net)
Date: 10-11-00 06:05
Hi. I have been reading your thoughts on the "But Josh Isn't Jewish" article. I am a Catholic woman married to a Jewish male. My husband is I suppose what those would consider a "non-practicing" Jew. I, however, would also be considered a "non-practicing" Catholic. My husband and I have discussed how we would like to handle our religious beliefs, etc. We have agreed to celebrate each holiday that the other feels is important. However, the things we celebrate are more tradition to us, they are not highly religious in meaning to us, so there is no real conflict. We do have religious aspects to the holidays we celebrate, however, they are not as strong as others I'm sure. For example, we have a Menorrah and a Christmas tree during the winter holidays. The menorrah is symbolic for my husband, and we do the lightings. We have a Christmas tree for myself, however a tree, in my eyes, does not have anything to do with Christ, it is more tradition, and therefore, we have taken to calling it a "hannukah bush/tree". I realize how important it is for my husband to celebrate his background and he realizes that I wish to do the same. We have also spoken as to how we plan to raise our children. We plan to have them raised as Jews, however they will have plenty of exposure to my lifestyle as a Catholic. I know there is a lot of controversy over children being exposed to two religions, some say it will cause the child to be less religious, however we think it is important for our children to be exposed to both of our backgrounds, not just one. We are very proud of who we are and where we come from, and I don't understand why people are so scared of a child being raised to have knowledge of both. I know of a lot of people who were raised bi-faith and have come out wonderfully. I just wish that everybody would be more open minded about interfaith marriage and raising children interfaith. Someday I'm sure it will happen. Until then, good luck to all. |
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| Andrea on the money... |
Author: Lourdes (64.128.149.---)
Date: 01-09-01 13:15
Andrea's comments are right on the money, and I'll tell you why. She isn't saying Jews have to be observant, she's saying that in an *interfaith* home you *have* to have some level of observance or the children will not consider themselves truly Jewish. Their parents are of two different faiths. Let's say Mommy goes to church every Sunday but Daddy, who is Jewish, does *nothing* except go to his mother's house for big holiday meals. Daddy says he is "culturally" Jewish, and will always be Jewish even if he never sets foot in another temple again. Well, that's great for Daddy, but Daddy was raised by two Jews, his mother was Jewish, all his relatives are Jewish...in other words he truly is culturally Jewish. But his kids are not going to be culturally Jewish...they are culturally a mix of Christianity and Judaism. So the *practice* of the religion is what will allow them to identify as Jews. Simply eating matzo balls and bagels won't cut it. Esp if they see *Mommy* observing her religion and Daddy just sitting around complaining that he's sick of all the Christmas carols on the radio in December. Hmmm...I am a five year old, what will I deduce from this picture? That Mommy is a religious person and Daddy isn't. That if I have a question about God, I should ask Mommy, as she seems a lot more interested in the concept than Daddy. Get the picture? There are a *lot* of Jewish guys out there who want to marry Gentiles but have Jewish kids...and then the wife says, well, when are we going to teach religion to our kids...let's do shabbat or go to temple or *something* and he says "oh, that's all b.s., they're Jews because we say they are...they'll go to hebrew school and get bar mitzvahed, stop nagging me..." It's time for these guys to grow up and take some RESPONSIBILITY for their children. |
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| children in interfaith family |
Author: Lorie (137.53.37.---)
Date: 01-17-01 17:08
My husband and I discussed this issue before we got married. Our determination was to raise our "someday" offspring as Jewish. I think that it was an easier decision for me, because I am not a "active" Christian. I think that for us, it was very important that my husband (not a observant Jew) realize that if we commit to this, he has to be actively involved (he has agreed to this). Not that I won't share my upbringing with our kids, but we won't be practicing both. |
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| just responding to s/t susan said |
Author: Rose (---.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net)
Date: 11-25-01 13:14
Susan, I believe you are the one who is the child of an interfaith couple and you were exposed to Unitarian and other religions before later in life converting and then marrying a Jewish man.
What I'd like to say is that you sometimes express a rigid condemnation and misunderstanding of christian practice or viewpoints, and this is disappointing because you could serve as an excellent bridge and source of guidance for people here!
HEre's my take on something and I look forward to your or anyone's reply. Catholics place great emphasis on practice/ritual. In fact, that is much more important than belief. WORKS or DEEDS are emphasized. This is not like other christians who focus more on the WORD. This I think is because protestants (basically all christians except catholics) have this notion of 'grace' which was the challenge to the catholic theology at the time of the protestant reformation. Grace says basically that you are chosen/graced to enter heaven or not- just by religious affiliation/birth/choice. Now that is not what Catholics think. We have to EARN our way through good works- and many catholics don't think of it as heaven or hell later- but heaven-right-lives Now.
Now relating this to Jewish beliefs and practices... I think actually jewish culture and religion has both aspects of WORD and DEED/RITUAL (maybe more on ritual than "works" as the Catholic focus on good works) as well as 'grace,' though not in the sense of heaven later- but being chosen now.. and living a righteous just life.
So I'm saying that ritual or works/practices are very important to Catholics -- sacred symbols and rituals are very important-- and not as you suggested before. But maybe you were referring to christians in general or to Unitarians. i don't know much about Unitarians -but that is like a secular-intellectual religion- in that there are few sacred symbols, rituals- it's like going to a town meeting. I think the farthest thing from CAtholicism in its practice is Unitarianism (it's so bland) and the closest thing is Judaism- both are concerned with the sacred in ordinary life and both have high holidays/ holy rituals/ symbols and much empahsis upon practice, e.g. sacraments, although judaism has perhaps more emphasis upon the word/the book than catholicism.
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Author: Bryce (---.mpowercom.net)
Date: 11-28-01 12:25
Thank you Rose for your thoughtful post. Concerning your last statement, I'd like to mention a Jewish viewpoint on word/book/deed/ritual:
Ironically, Jews, traditionally speaking, believe in some of Jesus' words:
Matthew 5:18-5:19
§ For verily I say unto you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, one iota or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all come to pass.
§ Whosoever then shall do away with one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of the heavens; but whosoever shall practice and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.
When Rose says "emphasis upon practice, e.g. sacraments", she might consider adding to the list: "emphasis upon practice, e.g. mitzvah objects, morality, monetary law - including laws of damages, laws regarding gossiping, laws regarding holding a grudge, and a whole ton of other commandments." |
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| Which faith? |
Author: Sherry (---.gcnet.net)
Date: 11-30-01 06:40
I have a question for any/all of you. My ex-husband converted to Judiasm about ten years ago after being a Jehovah's witness for most of his adult life. For a short period of time we went to a synagogue that was very supportive and loving. When we moved out of that area, I did not find the new group very nice at all and I stopped going. Many years later now he still claims to be fully Jewish but doesn't attend like he used to. He tries to keep a kosher home.
Here is my problem. The younger children are with me and have had no formal education in religion one way or the other. They just spout "I'm Jewish" because dad tells them they are. He lives over 1500 miles away and I have asked repeatedly for him to contact a synagogue near me if he wants them to have a formal Jewish education, telling him I really think they need a religious base. He has basically taught them all Christianity is wrong and scoffs at all other religions, which I think is totally wrong. I may not believe all aspects of a certain religion but I have respect for those who maintain their beliefs and use them for good works. My daughter goes to a school for the blind and for 2 years I didn't let her participate in bible studies or sing at area churches. Recently, especially after the terrorist attacks especially, I began to wonder if I was right by not letting them explore their options and choose for themself. I discussed this with their dad of course who was not happy about it and I again told him if he wants them to have a formal education to contact the synagogue. My daughter was absolutely thrilled to get to go to bible study. My 13-year-old is another story. He heard his father scoff at other religions that he spouts they are "stupid". I have offered him the option of unitarianism since it's basically nonsecular and offers life advice. Since I am not Jewish (or Christian for that matter), I do not feel comfortable contacting the synagogue myself. What would be the best way to introduce my son to making his own decisions and not calling all other religions "wrong" just because he is afraid of angering his dad? His dad even hated Christmas when he was Christian and my son now gives me grief over the tree and decorations. I have explained to him that it's a tradition to me and I love the feeling of the holiday. He won't participate in decorations or anything. It troubles me that he spouts "I'm Jewish" yet knows nothing about it and condemns all other religions. |
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| Sherry's son's religion |
Author: Susan (---.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net)
Date: 11-30-01 12:10
Sherry:
I can really sympathize with your situation, and I agree that a young teen may have needs which religion can answer. I grew up as a Unitarian, and the Sunday school curriculum in those days was comparative religions. There was a book called <I> The Church Across the Street. </i> We did learn a lot about the various choices available. You might consider letting your son check out what they do there, but don't be too surprised if he doesn't care for it. I spent a lot of my early adolescence shopping for churches in the area, sometimes with my mom driving me, although I didn't really find anything I fully agreed with.
I'm sorry that your son's Jewish identity seems to consist of no more than disdain for all other religions in general and your Christmas decorations in particular. Judaism is not the default of Christianity; it's a rich and exciting religion of its own. I can see how you may not feel comfortable contacting a synagogue on your son's behalf, but if your ex lives so far away, I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to do so, either.
Here comes my advice, since you asked. If your son is a Jew and he's 13 or more, he's a bar mitzvah, which means he's responsible for his own religious practice. If I were you, I would encourage him to check out the nearby synagogues (or Chabad house, if there's one in your area) and give him lots of moral support. If he feels shy about going, maybe you can go with him. Ask him what he wants. Perhaps he has a Jewish friend or classmate he can talk to or go with. Having been the only identifying and practicing Jew in my family when I was young, I can see how going to a synagogue alone might feel strange for your son. Then again, the most important Jewish institution is not the synagogue, but the home. If you can help him foster friendships with other Jewish people (ideally his own age) and their families, then he can have a much more satisfying religious experience and find a community where he belongs. |
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| Rose asked for my reply |
Author: Susan (---.as8.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net)
Date: 12-03-01 17:58
Rose:
Can you please explain why you think I "express a rigid condemnation and misunderstanding of
christian practice or viewpoints"? Just because someone is committed to raising her children in the religion of 3/4 of their grandparents, that doesn't mean she condemns or misunderstands other reIigions.
Actually, I have studied christian practice or viewpoints quite extensively. I would agree that in a number of ways, Catholics have more in common with Jews than Protestants do. The "faith vs. works" remarks I made previously were in response to Father Walsh's comments. Frankly I was a bit surprised that he emphasized "faith" so much. I know Catholics come down heavier on the "works" side of the balance than Protestants, and that was one of the reasons why I developed an interest as a child in joining the Catholic church. All that ritual seemed so much more romantic than what we did in the Unitarians. You had stained glass and incense and candles and little lacy thingies to put on your heads and those beads, and your teachers wore those long dresses, and there were those special rules about what foods you couldn't eat on certain days of the week, and best of all, there was a special ancient language just for prayers! At least, that's what it was like when I was a girl, and then they got rid of a lot of the traditions that made Catholics different from Protestants. When I was in college, I majored in history, with an emphasis on medieval and renaissance intellectual history, and I studied the dispute between Erasmus and Luther over "justification by faith," which made me see even more similarities between Catholics and Jews. (My apologies to those who don't understand what I'm talking about.) But of course, the specific rituals of the two religions are very different.
By the way, your belief that I converted is erroneous. I was born Jewish. |
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| Your message |
Author: Sherry (---.gcnet.net)
Date: 12-05-01 23:21
The problem is there are absolutely NO organizations, synagogues, etc in my area and no other children of the faith period. I feel that since his dad told him all other religions are "stupid" and "wrong" and makes such fun of them, if he wants him to be raised Jewish, then HE should find him someone to teach him. When his dad was a Witness, then Baptists were stupid, now that he says he's Jewish, then all Christians are misled and ignorant. I will not push my son into a ceremony he knows nothing about...he doesn't even know a traditional prayer!! I don't care what he goes into but he needs to go into something! I don't want him growing up athiest like my oldest son. |
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Author: Bryce (---.mpowercom.net)
Date: 12-06-01 10:40
(Sherry) "The problem is there are absolutely NO organizations, synagogues, etc in my area and no other children of the faith period."
I'm so sorry for that, but thank God for the Internet. There are tons of good sources out there (tons of stinky ones, too -- so you have to shop carefully). It's not a substitute for what you're seeking, but it should give you a good (and free) start.
(Sherry) "I don't care what he goes into but he needs to go into something!"
I bet that a lot of cult-members' parents used to say the same thing. (I'm sorry if that stung.) |
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| Replies |
Author: Sherry (---.dialupcu.pennswoods.net)
Date: 12-06-01 13:38
No that didn't sting actually..every response I have received so far has tried to steer him to only Jewish and I won't do that, no way. You can't learn to be in a community and be part of a congregation of any kind by the internet. What 13 year old do you know (and be honest) that would sit down at a computer and say "gee I think I'll find God on the internet today?" not likely...case closed. (unless of course there is a video game about it) |
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Author: Bryce (---.mpowercom.net)
Date: 12-06-01 15:11
They might not say what you said they'd say, but tons of thirteen year olds are on religious chat groups. It would be up to you to provide him with some links. I did a search on google: "jewish teens" and found a ton. You can try other searches, too. Good luck. |
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| Brainstorming |
Author: Susan (---.as12.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net)
Date: 12-06-01 16:56
Sherry:
I've tried brainstorming and I thought up these possible solutions to your dilemma. I am not endorsing any of them, and I'll admit that you'll probably reject some right away, but I hope at least one of them is useful to you:
Send your son to live with his father?
Move to a town with more Jews?
Look for books about Judaism at local bookstores or libraries?
Look for books and other information about Judaism on the internet?
Wait until he's old enough to go off to college in a town where he'll meet more Jews?
Accept the possibility that he might develop an interest in other religions instead of Judaism?
Accept the possibility that he might be an atheist?
It is common for teenagers to change their minds a number of times about who or what they want to be. As the child of a man who converted to Judaism, he is under no obligation to follow the Jewish religion; it would just be his own personal choice. I still think his best bet, whatever he chooses to do, is to educate himself as much as possible. You are right that people can't pray or take sacraments via computer, but they can certainly find a great deal of information and social support.
I'm not sure what you meant about ceremonies and prayers. If you perhaps imagine Jewish boys need bar mitzvah ceremonies to become "official" in some way, it is not necessary. A Jew automatically becomes a bar or bat mitzvah simply by virtue of not dying before his or her thirteenth birthday (twelth for a girl). |
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| Recent post |
Author: Sherry (---.dialupcu.pennswoods.net)
Date: 12-06-01 19:21
I would not move, no way. I have lived all over and I am home now and I will stay home, plus my daughter goes to a very good school for the blind. I wouldn't send him to be with his dad. He remarried and what time they were visiting over a year ago we found out she was abusing them and had a prior record of abuse for her own children. She was told to either attend anger management classes or go to jail..instead they opted to move 1500 miles away. Imagine someone hitting a nearly blind child so hard they fall off a chair...all because they were served a salad that was brown (old lettuce). I tried letting my son visit this summer and it happened again so their dad now has to come here for visits. His own mother testified against him. I have a Jewish friend I met by chance when an email went astray and even he tried to help me get some education for them. There is a synagogue an hour away (I mean mountain driving too) but it doesn't seem that people are that interested in taking in children to give them an education if the parents aren't involved. I want my son to have a belief in god..however he chooses to take his path to God would be his decision..I'm just trying to get him interested in something, anything, and not to be so prejudicial. My daughter started attending regular Christian bible study and she is quite happy with that. I told my ex that I believe God hears the voices of children before anyone...and my daughter sings in church, etc., and I'm sure she's being heard, even though it's not the way her dad would like her to be heard. I feel if he were following traditional Jewish law, he would not have let them be abused and walked off from his entire family, including his mother, for another person. It just about killed my children because they were so very close to him. Whoever I can find that will take my son under their wing and teach him whether it be Christian, Buddism, Unitarian, etc., I will be happy with it. I have no preferences as long as it's not radical like Jerry Falwell. |
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| How strong is his interest in Judaism? |
Author: Susan (---.as1.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net)
Date: 12-06-01 22:35
Sherry:
Actually, when I wrote that I *didn't necessarily endorse all those ideas*, it was the sending-him-to-live-with-his-dad option and the moving option that I had in mind.
Just how strong is your son's interest in Judaism and what is the basis for it? Is it just because he admires his dad, or does he really believe it? I wonder, if the dad decides to get into Sufiism or Zen or Wicca next, what will happen to your son's interest in Judaism? As I wrote before, he has no obligations under Judaism, and I expect most Jews would probably not see him as bound by Jewish law unless he underwent a formal conversion. |
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| Post |
Author: Sherry (---.dialupcu.pennswoods.net)
Date: 12-07-01 03:09
Funny you should mention Wicca..his dad was into that for awhile. His interest is not very strong at all...he mainly feigns interest for fear of disapproval from his dad. His dad underwent conversion but it was from a liberal synagogue without a rabbi..the cantor was acting as rabbi. I guess that counts ok. If his dad was actually showing faith through deeds and behavior, I would be out scouting myself no matter what it took, but honestly he doesn't and usually these beliefs are a fad. He loves to go out wearing the head covering (I won't try to spell it) in places he knows it might provoke someone because he loves the argument and coming away with "I'm better than you". That's really the main thing I disagree with. I think no matter what your religion, if you are good and just and help people, you are as equal as the next person. |
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Author: Bryce (---.mpowercom.net)
Date: 12-07-01 12:52
(Sherry) "I think no matter what your religion, if you are good and just and help people, you are as equal as the next person. "
Even more than that. No matter what your religion, even if you're not so good and just, and aren't helpful, you are as equal as the next person. I wouldn't say "admirable", just "equal". That being said, I would add that it is vital to belong to a system/environment in which good and just and helpful behaviors are repeatedly stressed. I strongly believe that a religious setting (not all, but many) is the place to be in order to have these qualities absorb into you and your children. The person who is not affiliated with such a system/environment is much more likely to find his morals drifting downwards.
Good luck as you carefully "shop around" for such an environment. |
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| A few more questions |
Author: Eric (---.bsh.com)
Date: 12-26-01 14:29
Hi. I recently came across this website and think the information and discussions are terrific! Just a little background - I'm Jewish, although I'm what I guess you'd call a "secular" Jew. My parents are both Jewish, I went to Hebrew School, and I was Bar Mitzvahed. I light Hanukkah candles, participate in a Passover sedar, and try to attend synagogue at least on the High Holidays. But that's about it as far as "practice" goes. I don't keep kosher, don't attend synagogue on Shabbat, and, frankly, have a rather cursory knowledge of a lot of the Jewish tradition. Still, I do, and always have, considered myself Jewish. My wife, on the other hand, is Catholic. She attends church just about every week, goes to confession every once in awhile, and celebrates Christmas. She is not what I'd call an "ardent" Catholic, but is more "practicing" of her religion than I am of mine. She is very accepting of my Jewish heritage, as am I of her Catholic heritage. I sometimes (although not always) attend church with her, and she has expressed an interest in attending synagogue with me (although I have not yet joined one in the two years we have been married.) We celebrate both Hanukkah and Christmas, light Hanukkah candles, decorate a Christmas tree, etc. Also, we each get along fine with, and are accepted by, each other's families.
Although we do not yet have chrilden, we have been grappling with exactly how to proceed once we reach this point. My wife and I have agreed that we would like our childen to have an understanding and awareness of both the Jewish and Catholic faiths and, when they are old enough, that they should be free to practice either or both in a way in which they are comfortable. I have no problem with our children attending church and my wife has no problem with them attending synagogue and possibly even being Bar Mitzvahed. However, I'm wondering if this will be a confusing situation, especially when they are young. Also, my wife would very much like our children to be baptized. While, theoretically, I have no problem with this, I am wondering if this will, in essence, mean that our children will indeed be Catholic and that any type of Jewish training will be little more than "going through the motions." If we have a boy, can he have a baptism and a briss? I feel like this is a dumb question, but I'm just really not sure. It is less important to me that my children be "practicing" Jews (since I myself am not) than that they have a reasonable conception of their Jewish background and consider themselves to be at least partly Jewish. My wife feels pretty much the same way about Catholicism. I feel as though it would be hypocritical of me to demand that we raise our children Jewish since my wife is clearly more of a practicing Catholic than I am a practicing Jew. Still, I'd like to come to some sort of manageable compromise that would be "acceptable" to both faiths and would allow us to instill both Jewish and Catholic tradition in our children. I'm sure there are other people in our situation and I'm wondering what they've done. Is it possible to truly raise children as both Jewish and Catholic, or does it really need to be one or the other? Can a baby be baptized and still be considered partly Jewish? Is the actual "practice" indeed less important than the values that are instilled by the parents? Is this all just wishful thinking? My wife and I are both very open-minded and are eager to hear how others have handled this situation. Thanks for providing a forum for these types of questions - it's really great!
Eric |
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Author: Bryce (---.mpowercom.net)
Date: 12-28-01 14:48
Eric, you raise some insightful and interesting questions in your letter. I wish I were qualified to answer them. However, I can make one comment that might inspire you to ask some further insightful questions:
Even the greatest Torah scholars of the generation consider themselves to have "a cursory knowledge of a lot of the Jewish tradition", so it is hard to understand what you mean when you say your son should "have a reasonable conception of their Jewish background." |
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| PLAIN AND SIMPLE |
Author: JAMIE (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 12-31-01 08:21
If Josh, who is not religious (meaning does not practice his religion ) is in an interfath marriage he sholud realize that it would be in the best interest of his children that they not be raised Jewish. Presuming the mother of the child practices her religion, the child should be raised in the mothers religion. If neither parent follows there religion and only joins in on the festive celebrations than why contradict yourselfs. In this case you tell the child that you believe there is a god but you do not feel organize religion is necessarily the only way of reaching him. Teach the child that there no one right way to worship god and that god will not love him less if he is not a part of the majority. |
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Author: Bryce (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 12-31-01 19:41
"Teach the child that there no one right way to worship god "
Does this mean that there may be wrong ways to worship God? |
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| Raising children as "both" |
Author: Susan (---.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net)
Date: 01-02-02 10:13
Eric:
As someone whose parents intermarried and who knows many, many children in the same situation, I would have to say you are engaging is wishful thinking. If you want them to be Jewish, then even by the most liberal (and not universally accepted standards) you would still have to raise them without any other religions, which means no baptism. From everything you write about your life and your marriage, it's pretty clear that your children will probably grow up Christian, and Judaism will probably be not much more than a footnote in their personal histories. |
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| letter from Israel |
Author: miri (---.rlz.netvision.net.il)
Date: 01-04-02 16:24
dear friends,
Here is a site that could be of great interest to you all participating in this interesting discussion. I am sure you can get some ideas about customs and many other culturual aspects of Jews living in Israel.
Miri
www.newsletter-israel.com |
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In modern Jewish practice, Jewish boys come of age at 13. When a boy comes of age, he is officially a Bar Mitzvah ("son of the commandments"). The term is commonly used as a short-hand for the Bar Mitzvah\'s coming-of-age ceremony and/or celebration. The female equivalent is "Bat Mitzvah."
In modern Jewish practice, Jewish girls come of age at 12 or 13. When a girl comes of age, she is officially a Bat Mitzvah (\'daughter of the commandments\'). The term is commonly used as a short-hand for the Bat Mitzvah\'s coming-of-age ceremony and/or celebration. The male equivalent is "Bar Mitzvah."
The person who leads a Jewish congregation in chanting and singing prayer. ("Hazzan" in Hebrew.)
People who attend and worship at a given synagogue.
God. In traditional Jewish circles, it is forbidden to write or say God\'s name, so God is typically written with the vowel (o) replaced by a hyphen.
The language of Judaism. Used in prayer in most synagogues and the official language of the state of Israel. Also refers to Jews, especially before they entered Israel and were given the Torah, as in "the ancient Hebrews."
Within the bounds of Jewish dietary laws (kashrut).
The spring holiday commemorating the exodus of the Jews from Egypt.
Spiritual leader and teacher. Typically, but not always, leads a congregation.
"Order" in Hebrew. Refers to the traditional course of events, or service, surrounding the Passover and Tu B'Shevat meals.
The Jewish Sabbath, from sunset on Friday to sunset on Saturday.
Place of Jewish worship, referring to both the room where it occurs and the building where it occurs. Colloquially referred to as "temple."
Place of Jewish worship. Same as synagogue.
The first five books of the Hebrew Bible, or the scroll that contains them.
Hanukkah is an eight-day Jewish holiday commemorating the rededication of the Second Temple in Jerusalem at the time of the Maccabean Revolt of the 2nd Century BCE. It is marked by the lighting of a menorah.
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