Conversion - Page 1

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Welcome to our discussions!

Author: InterfaithFamily.com Editors  Date:   03-27-02 13:46 We're pleased to tell you that we've changed our online discussions--and we invite you to join them! When you submit a message, it will be reviewed by our moderators before it is posted. While we will accept messages that are realistic about the challenges posed by interfaith relationships, we won't allow people to vent their opposition to intermarriage, as has happened in the past. Our goal is to make our discussions a welcoming and safe place for people dealing with interfaith relationships to turn for helpful information and support. So please--join our discussions!

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Re:

Author: Ed Case  Date:   08-21-02 22:00 I'm posting this message at the request of Paul, who submitted it by email to me. .I am living as a resident on a Reform kibbutz in Israel. Which means I am not a member, but pay rent for my house, my sons education etc. After a year of living here we would like to apply to become members of the kibbutz, my problem is that as a non jew a percentage of the members don't want to accept me. I find this to be unrealistic as I already live here, my wife and son are both jewish and we have made a decision to raise our son as jewish. My personal beliefs are very strong I believe in the God of the Torah and feel very comfortable with my beliefs and values. I try to live my life by the seven mitzvot of Noah. To say I don't believe in Judaism is a little strong but I dont believe that God requires us to live our lives by such a rigid set of rules, I also feel strongly that religion itself be it Judaism, Islam, or Christianity are the cause of a lot of surpression and misery around the world. I feel that to convert for the conveniance of others is an insult to Judaism itself and the millions that have suffered in the name of their religion. What really annoys me is that on the kibbutz there are families that although Jewish by birth neither believe nor practice judaism. In fact one member is a self confessed Pagan, I on the other hand take my son to synagogue at Yom Kippur when my wife's parents visit, I particpate in the shabbat rituals out of respect for their beliefs and my son's roots. I would be grateful for any advice that you could give. Thank you Paul

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ethnicity is not judaism

Author: john1974  Date:   01-10-03 16:58 Mr. Essex, It is a shame you feel the way you do about Jewish ethnic customs and rituals. I can certainly understand your feeling strange with regards to certain ethnic aspects of Judaism, anyone who was not raised Jewish probably would. The decision is up to you, however. If you make no effort to release your inhibitions, then these customs will be uncomfortable to you. Like it or not, these are part of Judaism. Take the ethnic part of Judaism away, and Judaism looses part of what makes it unique. Conversion means accepting this. Perhaps you are not a proper candidate for conversion if the ethnic part of our religion makes you so uncomfortable. It is quite brazen of you to ask Jews to divorce themselves from little ethnic traits and quirks that help to define us. Judaism is more than the universal humanistic religion than many people are making it out to be. Some religions require only accepting a simple belief and that's it. This is not Judaism....make no mistake, Judaism is much more than that. There are some people that are intimidated by Hebrew, will you ask us to get rid of that too? Choosing Judaism means choosing the values you believe, but also accepting the things you are having trouble with. Ethnicity is by no means all Judaism is... but it is a significant part of Judaism.

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my journey

Author: Laura  Date:   01-11-03 19:11 Today was the start of my journey. I made one of the first steps towards my conversion to Judaism. I met with my fiance's rabbi in December and he agreed to sponsor me in my conversion process. I call it a process, because it indeed appears to be. Today was our first full shabbot. We attended a Friday night dinner at my fiance's grandma's house. This morning, we attended services and followed with a Shabbot lunch. We closed the evening with the braided candle, the wine and the spices. I felt comfortable and finally at home. My conversion classes, or introduction to Judaism classes, officially start 6 months from now...but I've already started my journey. It's so hard sometimes...I constantly question if I'm making the right decision. I get so frustrated because it's taking me forever to learn Hebrew. This site has been such a big help to me...I often sit and read and cry at what people have written. It's so nice to know that there's others that have experienced exactly what I'm going through. Thanks for helping me with my journey...

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Re: Welcome to our discussions!

Author: Behira  Date:   01-12-03 00:30 In answer to your question: True or false: New converts need time and support to develop their Jewish identity. TRUE I spent several years studying Judaism before I converted, and in that time I also needed support. So I feel that not only do converts need time and support, so do those who yearn to join the Jewish people. Having articles such as are in IFF is certainly a help. By converting to Judaism I created an interfaith marriage. My spouse is a Unitarian-Universalist. I wonder if there are others who also created interfaith marriages by converting out of a joint religion?

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Re: ethnicity is not Judaism

Author: Jenny Genser  Date:   01-13-03 12:16 I don't think that article ("Why I Won't Convert") was expecting Jews to drop their ethnicity. The non-Jewish husband, if you look at that article, is an agnostic. He has two reasons for not converting -- the ethnicity, and the fact that he doesn't pray to G-d. He's not asking Jews to give up either one, just to accept his decision to be a non-Jew who is a friend to Jews and Judiasm. There are two ways people consider themselves Jewish -- ethnically and culturally or religiously. He doesn't fit either box.

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Re: ethnicity is not judaism

Author: Felicia  Date:   01-13-03 13:41 In contrast to john1974's reaction (above), I actually agree with most of David Essex's opinion piece "Ethnicity Is Not Judaism." Unlike john1974, I did not get the impression that David Essex suggested that all ritual aspects of Judaism should be abandoned in order to make converts feel comfortable. Rather, he was bemoaning the fact that whereas according to Jewish law, converts are responsible for following mitzvot and learning/following the Torah, certain Jewish communities expect converts to internalize all aspects of Jewish secular culture, or else they reject their legitimacy as converts to Judaism. Even worse, some Jewish communities emphasize the cultural aspects of American Ashkenazi Jewry INSTEAD of the religious aspects of Judaism. The convert is instructed by his sponsoring rabbi regarding Jewish law and religion, but is then rejected by the congregation for not knowing a shlemeil from a shlemazel. ;) What may be confounding to a convert/potential convert from Christianity is that Judaism is a religion whose adherents are supposed to DO (or not do) certain tangible THINGS – it is a very physical religion. This may be unlike other Christian denominations which emphasize belief and faith over action and deeds. Without proper rabbinical guidance, it can be confusing for a potential convert to distinguish between the things that a Jew is supposed to do because they are mitzvot (e.g., eating unleavened bread on Pessach; eating in a succah on Sukkot) from those customs which evolved out of local circumstances of various Jewish communities (e.g., eating gefilte fish on Pessach; listening to klezmer music). Perhaps the Jewish community needs to better educate its members about the origins of the religious and cultural aspects of the various components of Jewish life, so they can readily distinguish one from the other. This way, the Jewish community will be less likely to send potential converts mixed signals. Remember, Judaism is more than the American Ashkenazi sub-culture. There are Jews all over the world who have very different ethnicities and customs, and yet they are indisputably, 100% Jewish. There are Ethiopian, Yemenite and Moroccan Jews -- many of whom are very observant and devout -- who have never eaten a bagel and cream cheese in their lives, and who probably know less Yiddish than Prince Charles. The common denominator is, as David Essex stated, “Torah, Israel, and the teachings of inspired Jewish sages through the ages.”

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Re: ethnicity is not Judaism

Author: Sylvia  Date:   01-14-03 13:14 I think you might be confusing the article written by Mr. Jeffrey with the one written by Mr. Essex. Mr. Jeffrey is the non-Jew who does not want to convert because 1) he is an atheist and 2) he believes being a Jew is mostly an ethnic thing. He is quite right not to convert if he is an atheist - I can't imagine a rabbi in his right mind converting someone who does not believe in God. I believe Mr. Jeffrey is absolutely right not to convert, and admire him for being honest. However I do not agree with Mr. Essex at all. I am a convert who is absolutely happy with both aspects of being a Jew - the religious and the ethnic. Of course the religious - God and Torah - is the more important of the two (and the only one that should count when it comes to conversion). And ethnicity is trickier because Jews, maybe not so much in America, come from many backgrounds and cultures, and what Essex calls Yiddishkeit is not Jewishness. But neverthless, I love learning about Jewish culture, food and history. Converts should rejoice in this adoption of another culture in much the same way I would also absorb Russian or Greek culture if I converted to Orthodox Christianity. I've found that Jews are eager to teach a newcomer about Jewish 'ways' or what a Yiddish word means, and I've never felt looked down upon when I didn't know something. At the same time, many born Jews are amazed at how well I can daven and how much I know about Torah (not that much really, and I'm sure I would feel very ignorant around the Orthodox). So I think it is rather presumptious of him to ask that Jews somehow tone down their culture and sense of history rather than make him feel a little less uncomfortable.

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Re: Welcome to our discussions!

Author: Sylvia  Date:   01-14-03 13:36 Behira, welcome to Judaism! I too am a convert, and by converting I too became part of an intermarriage. We were both raised as Baptists (though my family were never Baptists), then became something akin to agnostics as our marriage progressed. I eventually converted to Judaism, which I had been deeply interested in since a young girl. My husband was at first interested in Judaism, but eventually found a strongly fundamentalist Baptist church where he is now a member. It's been a challenge, but we've managed to deal with it, and both grow from our different experiences.

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Re: ethnicity is not Judaism

Author: Felicia  Date:   01-15-03 00:25 Hi Sylvia, The message I got from Essex's article was: The American Jewish community should not let Eastern European ethnic customs outweigh Torah and Jewish Law when it comes to the litmus test by which to judge the legitimacy of a conversion to Judaism and the acceptance of converts. I didn't get the impression that he wanted Jews to completely discard all their ethnic customs (and if this is indeed what he desires, then I think he's got a lot of chutzpah to ask such a thing!) Rather, he urged Jews not define themselves solely by these secular cultural elements. I agree with this sentiment. So, Mr. Essex: Are you out there? Care to set us straight about what you meant? Regarding the article by David Jeffrey: I agree with you 100% that there is no reason for him to convert to Judaism. Since he is an atheist, that would be highly unethical. BTW, I'm glad the Jewish community has been warm and welcoming to you. Best of luck. Felicia

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Re: Ethnicity is not Judaism

Author: David Essex  Date:   01-15-03 15:51 Felicia: You're correct that I was trying to say that the secular cultural elements should be de-emphasized in comparison to the spiritual and ethical dimensions. I believe such an approach might hold stronger appeal to some potential converts who, like me, are more attracted to Jewish spirituality but who are uncomfortable "putting on" a Jewish ethnicity when, in their hearts, they know it's not who they are. I realize that other converts are more, or at least equally, attracted by the culture. I also believe, however, that there is an important difference between the cultural artifacts that go along with any religion (symbols, sacred texts, rituals, etc.), and the various ethnic cultures of its adherents. The article started out as a letter to the editor in response to an earlier cover story in Reform Judaism about intermarriage. I felt compelled to express a viewpoint that isn't often heard in the endless debates about assimilation (that of the unconverted partner) and offer some possibly helpful observations on how to appeal to people who, like me, are more attracted to the spiritual elements. It would be disingenuous of me to pretend, however, that I wasn't also criticizing people who define their Jewishness almost exclusively by their Ashkenazic ethnic background, then wring their hands over the declining American Jewish population. I wanted to say, well, here might be one reason why some people aren't joining: I believe in your religion more than you do, and perhaps have even done more to support the Jewish people and its institutions than you have, but to really fit in as, and feel like, a Jew, I have to marginalize, discard, or replace my own ethnicity, and you get to keep yours? You don't even have to follow the religion? If I convert and later become less religious for whatever reason, will I be as Jewish as you? Or will I never make it, no matter what I do, because I wasn't born into the right family? Someone will retort that no one is asking me to drop my own ethnic identity or even to take on theirs, but I won't believe it until the American Jewish community truly becomes ethnically diverse. I believe that day will come, provided that we interfaith families, in this very transitional generation, provide our children with a strong religious education. --David

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creating an interfaith marriage by conversion

Author: Marilyn  Date:   01-17-03 12:39 I created an interfaith marriage when I converted too. I was Episcopalian and my husband a self-confessed lapsed Catholic. When I hit my 40s, I had success in many areas but felt disconnected spiritually. I went back to church and tried to get involved but felt nothing. I have always been interested in Judaism and picked up some books about it. The more I read, the more I felt that this was where I belonged. I converted 3 years ago. My husband and children (ages 10 and 13) did not convert but don't really practice Christianity. My husband doesn't really trust any organized religion but has come to services with me enough to know people and he feels comfortable there generally. My youngest may convert someday. Jewish holidays and practices are all she really knows and she gets excited by it. My oldest is more rebellious about it, but I think she would be that way whether I was Jewish or Christian, plus she's a teen. Since I was the one in my family who "changed the rules," I have never pressured my family to convert. If my kids had been little, I would have converted them but I want it to be a decision that they make. I ask them to celebrate my holidays with me and hope that they will see the beauty and richness and want that for themselves. It's lonely at times, but perhaps no worse than being in an all-Jewish family and being the only Jew who wants to be observant when everyone else does not.

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David's reply, etc.

Author: Felicia  Date:   01-23-03 03:32 Hi David Essex, Thanks for joining in the discussion and clarifying. I agree with your opinions about the misplaced emphasis on cultural, rather than religious aspects of Jewish life. Felicia ------------ I also found very little with which to disagree in David Jeffrey's article. Sometimes I fear that the outreach efforts of the organized Jewish community often cross over into proselytization. I'm sure many non-Jews in interfaith couples are under tremendous pressure to convert, and I think David Jeffrey did a great job of explaining why he personally, chose not to do so. I respect his views, as I think he is being honest and treating Judaism with the respect it deserves. Am I way off base here? Do many non-Jewish spouses of Jews feel pressured to convert to Judiasm? I'm curious what your experiences have been. Felicia

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Interfaith Marriage by Conversion

Author: Katey  Date:   01-23-03 10:49 I am also in the process (about a year now) of creating an interfaith marraige via conversion. My husband was raised with no real religious background so any kind of organized religion is pretty foreign to him; yet he has been gracious and accepting of my choice to convert. He occasionally joins me for classes and services and definintely enjoys the culinary experimentation! We have two young children, five and three, who have been learning along with me. They are not being raised as Jews but with a great deal of exposure and encouragement. I feel that making a choice about how to identify with a religion or spiritual life is something to be left to each and every one of us as individuals. All I can do is do my best to become all the wonderful things being Jewish means to me and hope that it will come to mean just as much to them. I must agree that conversion is a process, an evolution inside me that began with the spark of knowing that Judaism is where I belong. Being that I am also a Korean-American, there are different challenges I face aside from fitting in as a new Jew by Choice. Support of family and friends has been a great asset for me. Journeying down the path alone can be a little scary but with loved ones to encourage you and accept you no matter what choices you make, it can be a fun and exciting learning experience. One thing I try to remember time and again is that with change of any kind there is grief on some level. Allowing yourself to grieve over what you leave behind is a very important step in growing and moving on. Guilt plays a part for those of us who miss our Christmas tree; we convince ourselves that through these feelings we are not truly becoming Jewish. But I have learned that it is just the opposite. Grief is natural and inevitable, healthy and must be felt in order to move on and become our Jewish selves.

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Re: Welcome to our discussions!

Author: Tanya  Date:   02-07-03 13:06 There are others. I'm currently struggling with the fact that I've been studying and wanting to convert for several years, but without a synagogue around for me to do so, I've been on my own. I come from a Lutheran family, and I am recently engaged to a Lutheran as well. We have spent many hard hours discussing things. He agrees with me on most things about religion, and is all for my conversion, but is still concerned about any children we'll have. He doesn't want to convert himself, but is simply concerned about raising children Jewish when no one other than me in our entire families would be Jewish. It's the hardest decission I've ever had to make. I've even thought about giving up the idea of converting and continuing on as I have, but I would really like a faith community about me where I don't disagree with half the comments made. Does anyone have any suggestions for helping me? My family, unfortunately, is not very understanding, and tries to talk me out of it, but my friends (all Christian) are 100% supportive and wonderful.

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Something Missing

Author: Benjamin  Date:   02-08-03 20:50 This has been a good three-part series on conversion, with many different perspectives represented. Obviously, the more perspectives are represented, the greater range of possibilities are opened up to the person considering conversion or seeking information. And that is why I find it so curious that, with such a focus on representing so many different sides of the conversion landscape, there is one whole section of that landscape that is glaringly absent. In the entire three-part series, every person writing about their conversion experience (or decision not to convert) is speaking from a Reform and occasionally Conservative perspective. There is not one Orthodox conversion journey represented. I have my own bias in offering this critique. My wife, after several years of reading, speaking to numerous Rabbis and converts from Reform to Orthodox, and thinking intensively about the matter, had decided to embark on an Orthodox conversion. What we have found is that this is not so uncommon as is usually assumed. In fact, although surely not as numerous as among Reform or Conservative, there are many Orthodox converts, several of them quite prominent. I can't imagine that the editors couldn't have found someone to represent this side of the conversion equation with just a little bit of digging. In Boston, where the interfaithfamily web site is based, one of the most renowned scholars of early Christianity (Paula Fredericksen) and the owner of one of the city's most well known kosher establishments (Ruth's Kitchen) are both converts to Orthodox Judaism, to cite just two well known examples. A call to any of the larger Orthodox synagogues in any major city (or a web search for Orthodox conversion web sites, of which there are several) probably would have easily yielded names and/or helpful information. If we are to encourage Jewish choices, then I think it only fair that people have the full range of choices presented to them. Orthodox conversion is one choice that a not insignificant number of originally interfaith families make. An approach to interfaith families that included all the streams of Jewish practice would surely be more pluralistic.

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Re: Benjamin's post

Author: BobP  Date:   02-09-03 08:28 Just a guess/opinion on my part, but let's face it, very few of the interfaith married Jews are orthodox. So for example, if my wife decided to convert, it is very unlikely she would convert O since *I* am not O. Even she DID want to, I wonder if they would convert her without MY agreeing to live by O standards. One other thing (about lack of O conversions posted). Since the O movement is the least tolerant about interfaith marriage, they could be reluctant to provide an article for "InterfaithFamily.com" since it might be viewed as promoting or accepting such relationships.

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Re: BobP

Author: Benjamin  Date:   02-09-03 21:52 Bob, You raise some good points. Certainly there are far fewer interfaith Orthodox conversions than non-Orthodox, and I don't mean to imply that there's exactly a groundswell of interfaith Orthodox conversions. However, as I have discovered, there are many more than is generally assumed by people outside of Orthodoxy. As we have gone down this path, we have discovered a number of families where one spouse was not Jewish and the Jewish spouse was Reform, Conservative or unaffiliated, and subsequently the non-Jewish spouse became interested in Judaism, the couple explored it together and found their way to Orthodox practice. This is not to say that this is for everyone, and surely not the most common path. It's just to say that it does happen with some frequency, and the fact that many people are not aware of it is even more reason to include it on InterfaithFamily. It is estimated that about 70,000 of today's American Orthodox Jews (between 1 in 5 and 1 in 6 of all American Orthodox Jews) did not grow up Orthodox but became Orthodox as adults. Among that number are more than a few who found non-Jewish partners before they found Orthodoxy. As to Orthodox intolerance of interfaith marriage, although many Orthodox Rabbis might be reluctant to write an article for interfaithfamily.com about living as an interfaith family, I can't imagine that an Orthodox Jew by choice married to an Orthodox born Jew would be reluctant to write an article since Orthodoxy would view that unambiguously as a Jewish marriage.

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Re: ethnicity is not judaism

Author: DevorahVered  Date:   02-11-03 13:38 As a convert and a mother, I am creating the Jewish cultural heritage of my children without the cultural memory of one born to Judaism. My husband's parents are both dead. His family is mostly "gastronomic Jews" (Ashkenazic) and not engaged in synagogue life or home worship. When I make latkes, matzah ball soup, hamentashen, or brisket, I may be using my mother-in-law's old cookbook, but she is not here to comment, to add stories, to share memories. I would love it if she were still alive, but I think this is fine. (She died before our first child was born, but I knew her.) Since she isn't and I am the Jewish mother in our family, I do the best I can. Not only with food but with books of Yiddish folk tales, crafts, and other activities. Some things I don't like and don't eat (chopped liver, herring); others I love as much as anyone else in the extended family (gefilte fish, matzah ball soup). My children know they are Jews and they feel like Jews. Among our Jewish friends, many grew up in families where Jewish ethnicity was available but was shunned as old fashioned and out of touch with their suburban lifestyle. We are all learning how to recapture the best of our heritage in many ways.

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Re: Benjamin

Author: Ronnie Friedland, Editor  Date:   02-14-03 18:22 Benjamin, Thanks for your suggestion. If you would please contact me privately by email, we can discuss it further. Thanks, Ronnie Friedland, Editor, InterfaithFamily.com

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Re:

Author: (anonymous, for now)  Date:   02-19-03 17:19 I'm drifting a bit from the original discussion on whether the Jewish community in America views "real judaism" as yiddishkeit and matzo ball soup, and whether they look down on converts who don't embrace that, here. Personally, as a Jew whose great-grandparents did grow up Ashkenazi jews in Eastern Europe, I feel connected to both the religion and the yiddishkeit culture. I don't at all think that either my way of observance of Judaism *or* my sense of association of my eastern european Jewish ancestors' traditions as *my* Jewish heritage is the only kind of Judaism. I think one thing that the culture and food have in common with the religion is that they're all traditions that are somehow tied to one's identity with one's ancestors, and in a lot of ways maintain that connection and sense of peoplehood is an important part of Judaism, especially with so much of Judaism being about observances in the home, which means not just the Sabbath candles but the Sabbath meal become something that are imbued with Jewish meaning. But you don't inherit ancestors when you convert to Judaism, you keep your own, and that should be valued, too, and become a part of your Judiasm as a convert. Your grandparents' traditions matter too, and should stay part of your life! Just as a marriage between a born jew whose grandparents lived in Cuba and one whose grandparents came from Prague would presumably use both family's recipes for "Jewish food" or one from Montreal and one from New York would begrudgingly argue that the other partner's bagels might be edible, too. (sorry, I just visited Montreal this weekend! =). My fiance is a Catholic from Eastern Europe, which gives us all sorts of interesting cultural similarities, like his chicken soup and his mother's slow-cooked meat dish that tastes just like brisket (only it does have a bit of bacon that it simmers with...) and a very similar approach to food and to nagging to the stereotypical yiddishe bubbe. And of course his parents loved it when I made them latkes and matzo ball soup (dumplings are even called knoedli there!) And differences, like the fact that his parents say a catholic prayer and cross themselves before they eat, and like all the dishes that contain shellfish. Yet even if there was not a bit in common between our cultures, I would be proud of the cultural background he brought to our family and we would be a family that celebrated his background, even working some of his traditions into our celebrations of Jewish holidays. At our seder last year, we served several dishes that were his family's recipes, alongside the matzo ball soup, the gefilte fish, and the stuff we just thought would taste good. We had guests with backgrounds ranging from Israelis, Eastern European Catholics, Cuban Jews, and east-coast Ashkenazi Jews, all of whom shared a bit of their traditions and family stories that struck them as we sat at the table and read from the haggadah. I think it adds, not subtracts, to reflect all this diversity that can be part of a Jewish family and a Jewish community. Plus it probably helps children have a more diverse view of what being Jewish can mean, culturally.

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Re: my journey

Author: Paula G.  Date:   02-21-03 08:22 Hi there my fellow traveler. I too am newly embarking on the journey to jewishness! I hardly even know what to say to you right now. It is an exciting confusing invigorating and painful process. There is so much to think about and so much to do and there are no real guidelines for becoming someone else so you never know if you're doing the right thing or not. Its frightening and exctiting. I also am having a heck of a time with the learning of hebrew. And in my case the pressure is really on! My fiance' was denied his visa and is stuck in Israel now. We have been apart for 2 1/2 months now and I have had to undergo all my new studies on my own. I have been trying to wrap my mind around the idea of moving to Israel to be with him since I don't see them lifting the ban on his visa very soon with the current state of the world today and the issues with the US and middle east. I feel often times very alone and petrified of what the future may hold. I worry about my fiance in Israel and I worry about myself and how my family will react to all my new decisions. I would love to talk to you if you are open to sharing. Perhaps we may have some things in common. Paula

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Re: creating an interfaith marriage by conversion

Author: Martha  Date:   02-21-03 22:44 I also created an interfaith marriage by converting. My husband is a Christian and I was nothing other than monotheistic. Having a baby sent me on my search so that I could have a good solid religion to help my child grow into a moral and good person. The reason I converted to Judaism was because we all study and can think for ourselves within good limits. This really is a turn on spiritually. This is why I could not be Christian. We are doing well. Our son is 5 and will convert this week.

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Re: Judaism's attraction due to intellectual openness

Author: Martha  Date:   02-22-03 12:11 This discussion topic is exactly right. Judaism is extremly attractive to me because of the encouragment to think for yourself. I am surprised that so many Jews that are born into it are shocked that I converted out of my own appreciation of the religion and not being pushed into it through marriage. In fact that I created an interfaith marriage by doing it. My husband is Christian but has encouraged me to search honestly for a religion that worked for me. We have agreed to raise our 5 year old son Jewish. He will convert this week. It is exciting. Although Judiasm is the religion for me, I honestly have a greater appreciation for religious Christians by becoming a religious Jew.

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re: converting to christianity

Author: shmuly  Date:   02-24-03 17:59 <<The concern that I have is that there is a part of me that feels like I am turning my back on my heritage. My family knows nothing of all this yet. Do you have any suggestions how to determine which path (meaning Jewish vs. Christian) is right for me? Any comments or thoughts would be very welcome. >> Well, this is quite an issue you have here. It's good to see that you are giving it some real thought as to the consequences of your actions. I would definately encourage you to first read, read and read, as much as possible, about Judaism before you make a final decision, and open your mind to all it has to offer. Read the books gil mann recomended, they are very insightful. When it comes down to it, while Judaism and Chrsitianity have some similarities, their theologies, the way they believe in God, couldn't be more different than night and day. Have you trully sought the spirituality you crave- within Judaism? Remekmber, ultimately religion is a personal choice. Just remember though, for everything we do, personal choice or not, there are consequences, good and bad. That's why the choice you make should be well though out and not just based on a few feelings or hunches. If you don't allow yourself to explore the spirituality you crave within Judaism, then your choice has already been made for you, and you are waiting your time pondering the matter. Judaism can be as much or as little as you make it to be. A girl of 12 cannot have understanding the way an adult can. Keep that in mind when making your decision. If ultimately you decide that this religion is not right for you, then so be it. Yes people will be critical. But if you do not at least educate yourself better about Judaism, then no one will respect your choice, and quite frankly, I don't think you will respect your choice. Good luck, and if you have any questions feel free to contact me.

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Re: Paul's email

Author: Tzipora  Date:   02-25-03 13:37 It is not unreasonable for the members of the Kibbutz to limit membership to those who are Jewish, whether by birth or choice. That is their right, just as it is your right not to convert. As for making a decision to raise your son Jewish, he is Jewish. His mother is Jewish, therefore he is. To not raise him as a Jew would be to deny who he is. I can understand your frustration, but the members of the kibbutz have the right to place whatever conditions they wish on membership. You want them to respect your views and decisons, but do not want to respect theirs. Do not ask for that which you are not willing to give.

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Re: David's reply, etc.

Author: Karen  Date:   02-26-03 09:21 I was raised Catholic and have been a member of our Temple (my husband is Jewish) for more than 16 years! I never felt any pressure to convert to Judaism, and I believe that nearly half of the member families are interfaith. Throughout the years, I have, on my own, taken great interest in Judaism. Through my learning, I have discovered a wonderful religion and way of life that I never thought possible. I proudly say that I am in the process of converting and feel that being Jewish feels right for me. Our temple is very caring and non-judgmental with regard to those spouses who are not Jewish. I hope that you will find a temple that is the same. Kindest regards, Karen

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Re: Welcome to our discussions!

Author: JW  Date:   03-31-03 17:22 Dear Sylvia, I am curious about how you were able to convert to Judaism. Two rabbis have told me that they would not sponsor a potential convert whose spouse did not wish to convert. They claim it would create a forbidden mixed marriage. How did you do it? JW

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Re: creating an interfaith marriage by conversion

Author: JW  Date:   03-31-03 17:26 Dear Marilyn, I am curious to learn how you were able to convert. It is my understanding that no rabbi will help someone convert whose spouse does not wish to. How did you do it? JW

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Re: True Conversions but no family support

Author: Sara Rebekah  Date:   05-28-03 00:07 Shalom! I am in the process of converting to Judaic Faith as I have always been greatly attracted to the Laws of Judaism. However, my question is how does one cope in a society where your parents are anti-Jewish, and you live in a mainstream Christian society. In my heart I am already a Jew, and am gradually being guided by Hashem to learn more and more about the beauty of the Torah. Many people around me don't seem to realise how difficult it is to honour this decision to become a Jew considering all the persecutions I have already faced, I know I look to the G-d of Israel for support first and foremost but I wondered what Torah law has to say about conversion and support systems to maintain ones sanity!!!! Thankyou for reading this!

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Re: my journey

Author: elizabeth  Date:   09-11-03 08:13 Laura, My husband is converting to Judiasm he is in the same place you are, we are reformed Jews and he seems to really like it but i think this site may be good for him and I was hoping maybe you and him could email. his iemail is bggross310@aol.com. i told him about you and he is excited to hear from you maybe you can talk to each other about the process it is a process and what feels good and what does not. he was raided a methodist but they did not practice faith is all new to him. he seems to really enjoy it.. but i feel maybe he cannot tell me everything he is a very kind man and would not want to hurt my feelings as a jew, so it is my hope you and him can support each otehr through the process. please lte me know either way p.s. where do you live?

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Re: my journey

Author: Ana Marie  Date:   09-24-03 23:08 I am considering converting to judaism as well. My fiance is also jewish and it is important for him and his family that he marries a jewish girl. I am roman catholic and proud to be. Eventhough I am not religious I do feel very strong about my beliefs. My situation is complicated. I want to please my fiance. I know that he wants me to convert and at first it was okay for me, but a week ago we met with the rabbi. After the meeting I felt awful. I felt as though I was doing something wrong. In my heart I know I should not convert, but at the same time I love my fiance and want to marry him. Reading the articles on this site have helped me realize that others are going through the same thing. In regards to your email. I was wondering what religious background your from? and how do your parents feel about you converting?

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Re: Welcome to our discussions!

Author: Ana Marie  Date:   09-24-03 23:19 Sylvia, I too am considering conversion. When I hear stories of christians who converted..well it makes me feel better. I have to ask though...what about the whole belief in Jesus? I mean those who convert stop believing in him? or perhaps they never did believe. This is confusing to me. I just wonder if all those who converted never believed in Jesus in the first place or did they decide to renounce him? confused

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Re: my journey

Author: Laura  Date:   09-25-03 07:46 To update those people who are interested... 6 months have passed since my first meeting with my rabbi... I am married with a Jewish last name (still getting used to it)... and I started my conversion course in August. It's really intense,..my hebrew is getting better though (practice makes perfect)... and it's slowly becoming a part of my life. To clarify some things,...I don't believe in Jesus, nor have I ever. I was raised with Christmas and Easter but only as holidays-never as religious events. I guess that part is easier for me... it was easy to adopt a new way of thinking, because I didn't really believe in anything (i was almost an athiest)... My family is slowly accepting the conversion process--they ask some questions about how the course is going... I'm still not sure if they're really that interested in what I'm doing--or how serious I've become..On the flip side,..my husband and I are more religious than his family too...so at times that is really confusing. I try not to be judgemental, and it's important to have a mutual respect for both families... Good luck everyone!

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Re:

Author: Rabbi Celso Cukierkorn  Date:   01-13-04 23:28 Dear friends, I would like to share with you an unique opportunity to take part in my Conversion to Judaism coursework and studies. This summer, I will be teaching two conversion seminars; one in Miami Beach, Florida and one on the west coast of the US, both to be scheduled during the month of July, 2004 and in Europe in 2005. These seminars are intended for students who would like to complete the Conversion to Judaism curriculum and who are able to travel for the one day conversion seminar, ceremony, and mikvah. Interested applicants must schedule a phone interview with me between the hours of 10 am- 6pm {CST} Monday - Thursday. (601) 606-1234 Due to space limitations, if for any reason, you want to participate in this seminar, please call me as soon as possible. Each applicant will be evaluated on individual basis. Enrollment is limited to the number of available openings. Please visit the updated webpage: www.convertingtojudaism.com B' Shalom, Rabbi Celso Cukierkorn

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requeast for assistance

Author: Eyal  Date:   03-01-04 04:52 Hello, I am an Israeli Orthodox believer. While living abroad, I met the love of my life, who happens to be a non-Jewish athaist German. We wish to get married, but I asked her to convert to Judaism first. Ideologically, I can't live with the thought of marrying a non-Jew, and by that, disregarding my faith and my origins. However, I can't disregard my fiance's Ideological perception of a groupless world, and the simple fact that she does not believe the whole story about "God's special people". Although she is willing to convert - for my sake, she finds how to explain her acts to her family and friends, difficult (while still finding it difficult to explain it to herself, as well). We are also facing a problem with the harsh invironment underwhich conversion is being made in Israel. We are looking for an easier, and a more welcoming invironment to convert. I'd be happy - if people with similar background and experience could contact me personally, and give us an advice. Thanks!

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Re: converting with Rabbi Celso Cuckierkorn

Author: maya  Date:   03-15-04 11:02 Rabbi, i am interested to know if your conversion is recognised, and what kind of conversion it would be? Thankyou Maya

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Re:

Author: Brock  Date:   06-23-04 17:12 I am a person who decided to choose Judaism at the age of 15. I became very active in my Temple Youth Group and went to Jewish summer camp. Because of this I think that I have a different Jewish life than most Jews by choice. I am, like most Jews-by-birth, not very observant. I feel that my Jewishness is found in my friends, in my desire for social justice, and in the holidays I celebrate. I do not find it to be in kashrut, attending temple, or other things that some find to be meaningful. What really makes me feel Jewish is knowing that the large majority of my friends are Jews, that my cell phone call list is all Jews, and that when I go to parties or shopping, I am accompanied by Jews. I certainly have that, "Yeah, I''m Jewish....and?" attitude that many other Jewish teens have. I am now 18, and eventhough I had a halakhic conversion, I have not carried observance into the other areas of my life. I am going to college in the fall, where I have a spot waiting for me in the Jewish frat and in the Hillel, as well as College Democrats. I hate to say it, but I think that had I become observant I may not have all of these good Jewish friends and companions. I think that converting so young gave me a very different outlook, and also gave me a very Jewish adolesence.

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Re:

Author: Erica  Date:   06-25-04 18:09 Brock, Can I ask you why you converted to Judiasm? What religion were you before? What was the deciding factor in your conversion? Just a quest for information because I am dealing with an interfaith relationship and trying to learn about Judiasm.

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Re: brock

Author: scott  Date:   06-28-04 16:04 <<What really makes me feel Jewish is knowing that the large majority of my friends are Jews, that my cell phone call list is all Jews, and that when I go to parties or shopping, I am accompanied by Jews. >> Is there anything else that makes you feel Jewish? When you converted, did you give other reasons to the rabbi than what you say above?

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Need some direction

Author: Amie  Date:   08-07-04 23:54 I am a woman who was raised Southern Baptist and last year married a Jewish man. I am opened to the idea of conversion, if I believe this is right for me. Despite my attempts to learn Jewish cooking, learn Jewish customs, and seek out answers to fundamental questions, I have been rejected by more traditional Jews. I have recently decided to seek out a Refom temple, as my mother-in-law (who lives overseas) believes this will be the best option for me. If I am honestly seeking to learn more about my husband's faith with an open-mind to conversion, why am I so harshly looked down upon by a large portion of the Jews I have met? Are my children doomed to discrimination because I was born a gentile, even if I do convert?

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Re: Need some direction

Author: Ellen  Date:   08-10-04 22:02 I have a friend who grew up Southern Baptist and is recognized by other Jews as the most Jewish person in town. So if you sincerely convert before you have any children, then you should be fine. If you wait until after you have children, then they will have to have their own conversions. The only thing I wonder about is whether you realize that there's more to becoming a Jew than learning a few recipes and customs and finding the answers to a few questions. If that is the current level of your understanding, then you may be in for a few surprises. You can check these websites and a few good books and talk to a rabbi to learn more about Judaism: http://www.convert.org/ http://www.jewfaq.org/ http://www.aish.com/ http://www.torah.org/ http://ohr.edu/index.php http://www.njop.org/ http://www.beingjewish.com/ You should understand that the Southern Baptist church has about the worst record of all churches where relations with Jews are concerned. They have targeted conversion campaigns against Jews and been a major funder of the "Jews for Jesus." So people may be suspicious, unless you can demonstrate to them that you're not like that. Good luck and God bless!

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Re:

Author: Amie  Date:   08-12-04 21:34 Ellen, Thank you very much for the links. I should have been more specific about some details that I left out. Although I was raised Southern Baptist, I have had no affiliation with any religious organization for over 5 years. I could not stand the hypocracy any longer when the minister kicked my mother out of the church for complaining that my father was sitting with his mistress during services (guess the money my grandparents gave was enough to buy my father "salvation"). After that, I had a serious falling out with my Christian faith as a whole as I read more and more about how the religion was developed. I understand that a conversion is much more than learning to cook latkes and throwing out my Christmas tree. I have bought countless books on fundamental beliefs of Judaism, but I have been told that I need to also learn the "culture" (if you will) if I wish to convert. I am also seeking conversion classes at our nearest temple. I honestly did not know about the Southern Baptist record with the Jewish people or that they funded the Jews for Jesus campaign, so thank you very much for that information. Amie

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Conversion

Author: Grace  Date:   08-15-04 05:42 Does anyone know of a Rabbi in Seattle that will perform a conversion when the husband does not want to convert? My mother's father was Jewish, so Orthodoxy does not recognise me a Jewish. I really want my daughter and I to have a Jewish life. My husband is happy to support a Jewish lifestyle, as long as he doesn't have to make a commitment to it. He's agnostic, and is happy to just go along with the traditions. I have been studying Orthodox for almost 2 years now, and I'm getting very frustrated. Thanks!

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Re: Conversion

Author: Lauren O'Macey  Date:   08-20-04 19:47 I am a perosn with no religion but with a firm belief in God and all that He represents. I was raised Catholic and left the Catholic faith after many disappointments and incongruencies of that faith. I have tried many others and found that organized religion is not for me. I have been dating a wonderful Jewish man for two years. We are very compatible and happy to be together. He knew I was not of any religion when we began dating. He told about 4 months after that he was Jewish and that our relationship was progressing to a more serious level. I never knew about his religious background because he never talked about it nor does he ever practice. He has not been in a synogogue in ten years . He was in one ten years ago when he got married and then got divorced after his wife had 2 affairs on him. Naturally they got divorced. He wants me to convert but I question why since he does not practice. He has confessed to a friend that it is for his parents and that he really does not care about me converting yet he pressures me to do so. I question why a religion that so firmly believes in God's love would require a non-Jew to convert in order to get married to a Jewish man. God's love is unconditional and true. It appears to me that the Jewish faith does not believe in the idea of unconditional love. Two people who love each other can only be married if one make the consession to convert and obliterate his/her own beliefs. That in my opinion, is sad and un-Godly and completely conditional. It encourages people to jump through hoops and convert just so that they can be together. My conversion would be formality only with no intention to practice which my boyfriend does not now. Converison to me is a man-made requirement and not a God based. This is truly unfortunate. Lauren

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Re: Lauren's Post

Author: BobP  Date:   08-22-04 02:08 Lauren You asked <<I question why a religion that so firmly believes in God's love would require a non-Jew to convert in order to get married to a Jewish man. >> It's because there is no such thing as interfaith marriage in Judaism. Even if a rabbi marries you, it's not a Jewish marriage. And your children would not be Jewish since Judaism comes from the child's mother (according to orthodox and conservative movements). There are laws of Judaism. One of them is a prohibition of marriage to a non-Jew. <<It encourages people to jump through hoops and convert just so that they can be together.>> Not true. In fact, Judaism discourages conversion just to get married. <<My conversion would be formality only with no intention to practice...>> Most authorities would not convert you if you told them this. No one should convert to another religion unless one wants to be that religion no matter what. Since he was married ten+ years ago, he's obviously an adult capable of making his own decisions. For him to claim his parents want you to convert is ridiculous. I think it's a convenient excuse to avoid a commitment. He know you don't want to convert - so "I can't marry you because you're not Jewish" is a way to avoid it.

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Re: Conversion - Grace's Post

Author: BobP  Date:   08-22-04 02:24 Grace I have no doubt your situation is frustrating. But there really is no answer. No orthodox rabbi can approve of your conversion, for the simple reason that this would create in interfaith marriage. And as an orthodox Jew, you could not be married to a non-Jew. I don't know how much studying you've done. But an individual rabbi cannot convert you. He can only sponsor your conversion. You would need to go before a bet din - a group of 3 rabbis or leaders who must approve of the converts sincerity and Jewish knowlege, and that he/she will live according to Jewish laws. Since your husband is not converting with you, they cannot possibly approve of you converting. You can look into one of the other Jewish movements. Reform and Reconstructionist would probably accept you as a convert. In any event, your daughter cannot be "forced" to convert. Assuming she is younger than 13, she would be given the opportunity to disavow her conversion at that age. Good Luck, Bob

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Re:

Author: shmuel  Date:   08-29-04 21:14 <<I question why a religion that so firmly believes in God's love would require a non-Jew to convert in order to get married to a Jewish man. God's love is unconditional and true. It appears to me that the Jewish faith does not believe in the idea of unconditional love. Two people who love each other can only be married if one make the consession to convert and obliterate his/her own beliefs. >> Lauren, I read your post and was somewhat torubled by your conclusion. Judaism belives in a loving god, however, but not quite in the way chrsitianity does. Yes, God's love of the Jewish people is unconditional, but the purpose of convering has less to do with god and more to do with the preservation of the Jewish people. Many Jews feel that the Jewish people will not survive if they dont mary other Jews. Even amongst nonpracticing Jews, there is still a sense of belonging to a group of people- this is a phenomenon forgieng to chrsitianty, because chrsitianity is in many ways very different from judaism. This sense of belongin may be diminished when marying someone who is not jewish.

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Re: creating an interfaith marriage by conversion

Author: kristina  Date:   10-26-04 22:16 Hello, Thank you for sharing your story. I am just starting the journey of conversion and will be creating an interfaith marriage. My husband is non observant baptist and our children only rarely attend church. I was torn as to what to do about the children. Two are teenagers so I thought I would leave the decision up to them. I have two that are young school age and am still trying to decide about it. It gives me hope to hear that things worked out in your family. Was the rabbi reluctant to convert you since your children were not converting? Thanks kristina

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