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Dealing with In-Laws and Extended Family - Page 1

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Welcome to our discussions!

Author: InterfaithFamily.com Editors
Date: 03-27-02 13:38

We're pleased to tell you that we've changed our online discussions--and we invite you to join them! When you submit a message, it will be reviewed by our moderators before it is posted. While we will accept messages that are realistic about the challenges posed by interfaith relationships, we won't allow people to vent their opposition to intermarriage, as has happened in the past. Our goal is to make our discussions a welcoming and safe place for people dealing with interfaith relationships to turn for helpful information and support. So please--join our discussions!

Please join this discussion

Author: Ronnie Friedland, editor
Date: 03-28-02 14:56

True or false: Sometimes I feel like Woody Allen in Annie Hall when I am at my in-laws house. They are so kind, but our family styles are so different.

Re: Baptism?

Author: Michelle Bohls
Date: 04-28-02 10:03

My husband's family wants us to baptise our baby (Christian). We are open to performing the ritual but cannot promise to raise our child as a Christian, which is part of their ceremony. Has anyone had the experience of Baptism without having to promise and commit to the Christian faith? Any additional compromises?

Michelle Bohls

Re: Baptism?

Author: Carol
Date: 05-02-02 16:22

I'm sorry to tell you that even the most liberal Christian churches I know of would not baptize an infant w/o asking the parents to promise to raise the child Christian. That's as it should be though, since baptism is the ritual acknowledging admission to the Christian community.

I do have suggestion for you though: look up a Unitarian Universalist congregation in your area if you can. UU's are sort of interfaith churches to begin with and since they have no fixed doctrine, you can probably find a minister there who perform a ceremony presenting/dedicating your child to God (maybe even incorporating a sprinkling of water) w/o ever mentioning Jesus or Christianity.

Re: Baptism?

Author: sharon
Date: 03-07-03 12:15

As this is a ceremony in the christian faith I think you woudl be doing an injustice not only to your own religion, but that of the christian world as well. As in every religion no commitment or ceremony should be taken lightly. I am not a die hard religious individual myself, but if I would not enter into this lightly.

It's been difficult

Author: Lori Chavez
Date: 06-02-03 20:43

When my husband and I announced that we would get married- 8 years ago... My mother-in-law requested that we be married by a Priest and Rabbi. Not wanting to insult either side we got married by a judge (although he was Jewish from NYC!)
I’ve never been accepted after that. I try to avoid family dinners, opting to go to 1-2 a year. However, I never stop him from attending any function. It’s been difficult for me because I really long to have a family tie to the Bay Area since mine are all in NY.

Re: It's been difficult

Author: Suzanne
Date: 06-05-03 18:25

HI!
I know exactly how you feel! My husband was raised with conservative Judaism. His family lives approx one hour away from where we live. We are both remarried, he raises his children with the Jewish faith. We have been married for going on 2 years now. His folks were not pleased. WHY? Because I am not Jewish. Their religion is very important to them, and I was not raised with any religion. Anyway, My father passed away 6 weeks ago. His family had all met my Dad and seemed to like him. He had a long illness (ALS). Do you know that his family never came to the funeral home, never sent flowers, never sent food, never sent a donation to hospice or anything. As if nothing ever happened. Not even a card! His sister in Seattle last week sent a card with a donation to the cancer Society. That sister had never met my dad.

Before this happened, his parents seemed to be trying to accept me and my daughters, although I always got the feeling their hearts were not in it. We would be invited for the holidays, to the synagogue, etc. Now after they ignored my dad's funeral, I feel like I have no desire to continue trying to forge a relationship with them. They were so disrespectful to me and to my family.

What do you think I /we should do?

Re: keeping kosher at the in-laws

Author: Leigha
Date: 06-12-03 08:19

I'm Jewish, my husband is not. We've been married 9 years and are about to have a son. We live far away from both of our families.

Whenever we visit my husband's parents, they insist on cooking a main entree of pork or shellfish for dinner everynight. They know I'm Jewish, they know I keep kosher, they know that means no eating of pork or shellfish for me. My husband has explained this to them dozens of times. I've tried as well, to no avail.

I eat the sidedishes they prepare and just skip the main entree. They try to push me into eating the non-kosher food, which I will not do. We tried eating out on our own one night (letting them know of our plans in the morning so they would not prepare food for too many people), but they threw a big fit as they want us to eat every meal with them--even if we stay in a hotel, like we did last time we visited. They will not let anyone else in the kitchen to cook, so all offers to let us do some of the cooking are rebuffed. We just don't know what to do. We certainly don't want them doing this in front of or to our son. Any suggestions????

Re: kosher at the in-laws

Author: BobP
Date: 06-12-03 15:18

Leigha

It seems to me your in-laws are deliberately trying to undermine you, and perhaps your marriage. Once might be a "mistake". But as you put it - <<My husband has explained this to them dozens of times.>> Add the fact that they are trying to <<push me into eating the non-kosher food>> shows a total lack of respect for your beliefs.

Since you asked for suggestions... Explain for the LAST TIME your dietary requirements, ask them if they understand them, and tell them that if they cannot or will not respect them, you will not go into their home for a meal.

The next time they prepare a non-kosher meal, you and your husband should repectfully say good-bye and go out to eat. If they throw a fit, so what? Just leave. If you go back another day and they do it again, I would NEVER AGAIN go to their home for a meal. You should not have to put up with this disrespect.

Re: Baptism?

Author: HDitty
Date: 06-13-03 19:53

Why would you want to baptise him Christian if you aren't going to raise him a christian?? What would be the point?

how to deal with extended family in Rosh Hashana

Author: Karina
Date: 09-24-03 14:56

Hi, i have a problem and i hope all of you can help me out. My boyfriend and i live together and his extended family here in the USA cannot approve of our relationship because i am not jewish. My boyfriend is from Israel and his parents and his closest relatives really like me, but they live in Israel. My boyfriend was always invited to his USA relatives's house during the holidays but now that we are living together his family did not invite him yet to the Rosh Hashana dinner. I feel guilty because i don't want to cause any troubles but he says that if they cannot accept me screw them, because he loves me. I was hoping that somebody here could help me out in sending me Rosh Hashana information regarding tradition, recipies, etc so i could prepare everything as a surprise for him here in our house. He is not religious at all and he does not care much about the religious aspect of the holydays but i think he is hurt and dissapointed because his family did not invite us yet and we think they are not going to do it. Can somebody help me out please!!!!!!!
my e-mail is karukaru@hotmail.com

Re: It's been difficult

Author: C. Goldberg
Date: 12-01-03 14:27

When I read your posting it sounded a lot like me. I got married a few months ago and I am from TX and my husband is from NY. His parents had no concept of where I was from and really didnt even care. I never really felt accepted. We do go to family functions but I really wish I wouldnt have to go. It is very hard being here in NY with absolutely no family and in-laws who only treat me nice in the public eye so they dont look bad. The hardest part is not being able to talk to my husband about his own mother. He doesnt think she treats me that bad, but he doesnt understand. All this tension towards her builds up and sometimes I just cant help it and it comes out and he gets upset. All I wanted was to be treated like one of the family, but at this rate it doesnt seem like it will happen. All I have to say is thank G-d my husband is not like his mother!

Re: Welcome to our discussions!

Author: Carla
Date: 12-23-03 17:09

I would go to a baptism and/or bris or baby naming. I feel it is important to show support for the family. In our family our grandchild had both. We did not go to the baptism because it was postponed to a time we could not attend. The other grandparents did not come to the naming which was held in our home.

Re: Baptism?

Author: Arnold Weintraub
Date: 12-23-03 18:48

You might consider contacting your local Unitarian/Universalist Congrgation.
Some groups perform "baptisms" without any Christological references.
Just a thought......

Re: Baptism?

Author: Bill Leffler
Date: 12-23-03 20:20

Baptism is a ceremony in which the infant is officially entered into Christianity. It ought not be taken lightly just to please one's in-laws. I would suggest that you read up on the Mortara Affair, which occurred in the 1800's in Italy to see how seriously baptism is taken within Catholicism.
You married your husband to be happy with him. You did not marry his parents. You are the one who has to make the life's choices for your minor children, whether the in-laws agree with them or not. This sort of situation is built into an inter-faith marriage and is what can make it so difficult.
I also wonder how the Jewish grandparents would react to the baptism of their grandchild. They might not be very pleased at such a occasion. These sorts of problems are built into in inter-faith marriage and are what can make them so much more challenging.

Re: Baptism?

Author: l. arking
Date: 12-24-03 10:17

I had to face this with some of our grandchildren . These are the principles that guided me to attend .

1.Family love and values are more important than ones choices in life and
I should rejoice in all aspects of my grandchildrens lifes even when those are different than what I would have wanted them to be .

2. We have freedom of religion in this country and each adult should have the right to chose their religion , my son made that choice and even though
it was not what iIwished it was what I got .. so I am going to isolate myself from him and his family . GOT o make that choice .

3. How can I be a guiding light to my grqndchildren for tolerance, respect etc if I disrespect their parents choice for them .

Re: Clash of religions

Author: Martha
Date: 12-24-03 13:21

Marie Bello's article recounting her experience upon her brother's decision to raise his child catholic is a perfect example of how interfaith marriages, and specially the couple's religious choices for their children, almost always bring sadness, confussion and dissapointment to one side of the family. In this case, it was the jewish family the one to be negatively affected by the decision. It happens.

I don't understand why was it a shock for the family the couple's decision of raising the child Jewish. First of all, her brother married a non jew who, from what I understand from the article, did not convert to judaism before they were married, nor when she became pregnant. If this wasn't an issue for her brother, why was she so surprised when they announced that the child would be raised catholic? It certainly was a very likely possibility.

Probably waiting until the last minute to break the news could have been a bit shocking, but as for complaining that they didn't discuss it with the family, well, they did not need to do so. Child rearing decisions are for the mother and father to make, and although ideally, an specially in the case of an interfaith marriage, it is much better to take the feelings the 2 families involved into consideration and give them the chance to express their reservations and concerns about the issue, the decision is ultimately and exclusively for the couple to make, and its their right to discuss that decision with others.

Finally, she expresses dissapointment and sadness upon her brother's choice, and assumes that pleasing his wife was the key factor to reach that decission. I wonder if she would feel the same had the decision been that the child was going to be raised jewish. Would she feel sorry for her sister in law, thinking that her decision was to please her brother?

She resents that "It shows that he has been influenced by his wife to baptize his son". Well, of course he was, as she would have been influenced by him had they decided to raise the child jewish. Whatever religious choice an interfaith couple makes for their children, is influenced by the one person whose religion is chosen. Does she thinks that every non jew who marries a jew and decides to raise jewish children do so because they "fall in love with judaism" or suddenly realize that what they have been raised into for 25-20 years of their lives is less valuable than the jewish religion and culture discovered after a few years in a relationship? Although there are plenty of these cases, I am sure that for many other non jews, even a non religious one, to give up the christian traditions and culture to make a jewish home is a difficult decision, however rich and wonderful being jewish might be.

What seems to be the main issue here is that, simply put, Marie woud have respected her brother's decision if it had been the one she wanted. If her sister in law had agreed to raise the child jewish, then Marie would not have seen this decision as an "influence" by her brother in a negative fashion. What this family need to realize is that the religious choice of the couple was going to bring sadness to one of the families. Had they decided they were going to raise the child jewish, the sister in law's family would have been the one to feel dissapointed and left out. Had she stopped to think how would she had felt if her sister in law family wouldn't have come to the child's bris, had there been one? How would she feel if they weren't to come to her nephew's bar mitzvah? Its simply the other side of the coin.

Re: keeping kosher at the in-laws

Author: JoAnn
Date: 12-24-03 15:28

I'm with Bob.....his parents are disrespecting you AND their son.

One more time at explanations, and then you leave if they serve pork/shellfish for dinner. There are many types of meat/fish they could serve and they are CHOOSING to be rude to you and treating both of you as if you were not adults.

And if they can't follow the rules with you, you can bet they won't follow them with your son..........and they may not all be dietary rules either!

Your husband needs to make sure he is really ready to cut ties if his parents can't respect his family.

Re: Marie Bello

Author: scott
Date: 12-25-03 01:22

Marie, what you did was right. Your brother is an adult and can makle decisions for himself. He made his bed, and now he must lie in it.

If he still still holds Jewish beliefs, and considered himself Jewish, then in my opinion, what he did was wrong. It is wrong, from a religious point of view, for a Jew to engage in a religious practice of another faith.
If on the other hand, he doesn't believe in Judaism anymore, and accepts Chrisitianity... then I think it's different situation. He should probably convert, if this is the case, and simply be done with it. To do that is respectable, if he feels Judaism isn't the religion for him and Christianity is.

I think however, from what you wrote, he still has Jewish beliefs, and that he needs affirmation from your family, that what he did was okay from a Jewish prespective. If he hears that from you, then any internal conflict he may have will be eliminated, and the difficulties which you talked about will also be eliminated. Not going to the baptism is a good way of letting him know that what he did was not okay. If he gets upset because of it, that's actually good in a way, because it means that he values your opinion.

Every group of people has certain rules by which its members must adhere to, and your broither needs to understand that. He violated one of those rules in a big way, and has no business being upset at others for not endorsing his actions by not being at the baptism, in my opinion.

Immediate family roadblock

Author: Liza
Date: 12-26-03 01:00

I am a 20-year-old college student. My parents (and most likely my grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc., etc) have strictly forbidden any kind of serious relationship, even with an atheist or other non-religious person. In the past, this hasn't posed a problem, because my previous relationships never really amounted to a whole lot. Of course, the inevitable happened, and I fell in love with a man who wasn't Jewish.

I beg for help here because I cannot find it anywhere else. My friends are very supportive, but they do not understand the depth of my parents' beliefs. My father said, verbatim, "If you marry someone not Jewish, it will be the worst thing that ever happens to me."

My boyfriend and I have been dating for over a year, and granted, I am still young, and not ready to get married for a long time. My education remains my priority. However, I feel that my love for Dan is not the love of a dreamy post-adolescent, but that it is real and solid, the kind of love that is meant to last for a long time.

I want to tell my parents about him. I am tired of sneaking around, dating him four hundred miles away from home and keeping quiet about it in order not to hurt my family. I have visited (in secret) his relations down in Georgia (yeah, I know, it gets better...) and they accepted me readily into their arms. I was at their house during Yom Kippur, and though I did not go to synagogue, I did observe a full fast (albeit how hypocritical I felt for sneaking around). His mother even expressed lengthy admiration for my faith, and tried hard to make kosher-style meals for me.

Dan has offered to convert, if we decided we really wanted to be serious, but we both know it would be a farce, as he does not believe in God or religion, so I don't think converting is the best idea. He does accept and admire my traditions, however, and is ready (as of now...yesyes, I know we are young) to raise a Jewish family if that is my wish (it is.)

My family loves Dan as a person, if only he remains "just a friend." Of course it's too late for that. I have deep love for my family and I would rather do anything than hurt them. At the same time, I feel that they are breaking me in two. I have found a man I love, who has stuck by me through some rough time, who is caring and intelligent, who would do just about anything to see that I am happy.

I am at a loss as to what to do. Please help!

Re: Clash of religions

Author: Carol
Date: 12-28-03 16:18

I am fortuate that my interfaith marriage has had support from both sides from the time we were dating. Because I feel a special love and closeness to the Jewish faith it was easy to decide to raise our children within the Jewish faith.This decision was suppoprted by both sides,mine catholic/Jewish,His Jewish. Had my brother not attended the naming of my daughters due to some sense of self rightousness it would have torn apart my family.We all raise our children within our beliefs and comfort zone. Everyone has the right to find their own path and share that with their children. That decision should not have to cause them their family.
My aunt told me how she handles the decision of her daughter to marry a catholic and raise their children that way. She has age apprropriate books about Jewish holidays and customs. She shares all of the holidays with them and makes sure they know their heritage. She also attends Christmas and Easter dinner at her daughters house. By being supportive she has not alienated herself from her grandchildren. She is then able to to ensure the girls stay close to the Jewish faith. Mabe rather then refusing to attend important events in the baby's life you could share your faith with him as he grows older. Life is to short.........................

Re: liza's situation

Author: scott
Date: 12-28-03 18:31

Liza, it sounds like you have quite a dilemma. When I was about 21, I was in a similar situation. Eventually, though, she broke up with me. My parents were not to thrilled about me dating her, and were not happy when at one point I actually proposed to her. She of course wasn’t jewish. I had the exact same dilemma as you do.
Had I actually ended up marrying her, she would not have converted. My life would be very different now. I know my parents wanted nothing more than for that relationshipo tpo fail, which it did… and I am glad it did- actually. At first it was very hard for me, extremely hard for me emotionally. But hinkgs got easier as time went on.

There is little that can be said to help you out, really. You have to help yourself, and make some serious decisions. There is no easy solution to your predicament. I don’t mean to sound pesimistic, but I doubt your parents are going to change the way they feel. They might get accustomed to you having a non-Jewish spouse, but I don’t think they will ever accept it- based on what you have said in your article.

You will have to make a very difficult decision. This decision depends largely on how you feel about your religion, but also about some other things as well.
You should consider how your parents feel… as no man is an island, and they are your parents.
But at the same time, it is your life, and certainly your choice, not theirs. Just know that either choice will be emotionally draining for you.
Also, if you wantt a jewsih family, what kind of Jewish life will your children have if their father isnt Jewish? It may not be the type you really want- especially if he doesnt even belive in God.

My choice was made for me, by my then girlfriend, and in retrospect I am glad she did what she did. Because of that I found someone whom I can not only share myself with, but my religion as well. I was so worried then I would never find someone else that I was ready to disregard my religion and my heritage for this girl that I dated at first.

Eventually, after she broke it off with me, I came to the conclusion that for me, my religion was very important to me, and I wanted no one to question that, least of all my family, and that I wanted to raise a Jewish family, where everyone was Jewish- including and especially my wife.
When I met my spouse 3 years ago I explained to her after about 3 months dating that she would need to seriously consider conversion if any type of serious relationship was to continue to exist between us. I figured the earlier I did this, the easier it would be, emotionally. She converted, (and in many ways she is more Jewish than I am sometimes) and found that Judaism was a wonderful religion that she agreed very much with. Her parents, fortunatelty were very accepting of her decision.
You have to ultimately decide what is right for you- only you can make that choice, but your choice will affect more than just yourself, be aware of that- no matter what you choose someone will get hurt. The only trhing anyone else can do for you is advsise you of the consequences of any decsion you may make. The rest is up to you. As Jew I would hope you choose the path that leads to Judaism- thought that will not be an easy path for you at this time, but again, it is your choice.

Re: Immediate family roadblock

Author: Holly
Date: 12-28-03 21:02

I am the Catholic in an interfaith marriage, raising Jewish children and keeping a Jewish home. Your father's fears stem from a belief that "mixed" marriages do not produce true Jewsih children, and carry on the people. Interfaith marriages are not terrible, respect between partners is a strong foundation for a relationship as well. Before my husband and I became engaged we discussed having children and that my husband needed to raise Jewish children. I didn't want children and I had no idea what being Jewish was all about. I was very young and not very bright. Shortly after I agreed to these constraints I began taking a conversion class to educate myself on Judiasm. I have not converted yet, we have been married 9 years now, I feel that we have very observant Jewish children, and I am very proud of that. We got here as a team, staying true to our promises and trying our best to do what is right. You cannot convince your father to like or love someone, all you can do is ask for respect. With your boyfriend, discuss if there is a long term future together, what does he see as a future, how does he feel about raising Jewsih children. For you you must ask yourself, can you handle going to a church on occasion if required, can you make it a point to try and learn and understand your boyfriend's religious convictions, can you treat his religion with respect? I am very lucky to have found a man, that even as a boy in college was strong enough inside to not feel threatened by a Christmas tree or by visiting a church. (His first Catholic wake was a bit of a shock I must admit). Though my children are not Catholic, they know of the faith because their mother is. They are small, 5 and 2, yet have a very strong grasp that they and Daddy are one thing and Mommy is something different. The menorah is their's, the tree is mine, yet we all live in the same house with a tremendous amount of respect. We belong to a very observant Reform Temple, accepting of interfaith families. This is our home. We, as a family have made a commitment to G-d, we are Jewish in a very true sense of the word. You are what you think you are on the inside, not just what your father thinks of you or your Rabbi, or whom ever else you might ask. Listen to your heart, you will find a congregation that embraces your faith and your choices and will make you feel at peace. Respect your father's fears just as you ask him to repsect your boyfriend. I wish you the best of luck.

any thoughts on weddings/receptions to accommodate everyone

Author: karen
Date: 12-28-03 22:11

My boyfriend and I are talking about getting married. We know each other eight and one half years. We have lived together for four years. We both have supportive and loving families. Our concern is two fold.

My sister is ultra-orthodox, Jewish. Not only does she keep kosher, I don't think that she would attend the marriage ceremony of an interfaith couple. I know that she will not go anywhere there is food that is not kosher. The question of either making special catering arrangements or giving her the option to prepare and bring her own food has already been answered. She will not attend a function if all of the food does not meet the kosher requirements to which she subscribes. I say that I can live without including my sister. My boyfriend is concerned that we not hurt anyone’s feelings. This leaves us to ponder how upset my mother would be if we “intentionally” did not include my sister. For an unrelated event, several years ago, my mother said that she would not attend if my sister was not included.

Ray and I want to pay for everything and set limitations on who is invited. I do not want a crowd. He is sure that his family does not invite all extensions, as mine does. I don't want my mom to go crazy inviting people to either a wedding or an affair. I do not want the guest list to be lopsided. He also thinks that his family would not “understand” if we had an affair with only kosher food. We also need to consider the cost of having such an event glatt-kosher catered. I do not want to be inconsiderate of his family.

Ray and I have also talked about the option of getting married away from home. Then we don't have to invite anyone. However, he thinks this would upset many. In many ways we are left with the same questions of having a kosher affair to celebrate our announcement, and the amount of guest and who chooses them. How do we get around all of this? What was done to resolve similar issues for other couples?

Re: Baptism?

Author: Starsh
Date: 12-29-03 13:05

I don't understand why there is all of this discussion on such a simple question.

Either you baptize your child Christian and raise him/her up to be the best Christian possible or you raise your child up Jewish to be the best Jew possible.

Remember, this is your life and the life of your child. Your family needs to accept and respect your decision. If they want to be part of yours and your childs life they will come around.

As far as some comments saying that you should go to a Unitarian Universalist church to have a ceremony performed, that's ridiculous. Why go to a group of people who have no common beliefs whatsoever to perform a ceremony that will mean absolutely nothing to you.

Re: any thoughts on weddings/receptions

Author: Kelly
Date: 01-01-04 01:35

My fiance and I are in a similar situation. We both want a small wedding, our parents want a large wedding with many extended relatives invited, many whom we haven't seen in years, and frankly, may not even recognize. There are so many things that would just be easier if we eloped. Yet, do we really want to give up our big day just because other people can't agree? I don't know. That seems like an awfully big sacrifice to me. If you want to elope then fine, but don't do it for the sake of others. I think you'll eventually come to a point where you realize that there is no perfect solution, and no matter what you do, it is impossible to completely satisfy everyone. Ultimately do what you want to do and that is the only way to ensure that you are happy. I think it is proper and respectful to serve kosher for your sister's sake and anyone else, but to ask that everyone, including your fiancee's family change the menu to accomodate her I think would be going way to far. I think that you should sit down with her and your mother as well and explain this to them, and if they don't come around, quite honestly I feel sorry for you that they can't show you the same respect that you showed them. But there's a point where you have to say enough is enough. It's up to you and your fiance to draw that line. It's your day and they don't have the right to be selfish and deny you and put you in the middle like that. It's just plain unfair. The best of luck!

Re: Holly and Scott

Author: Liza
Date: 01-04-04 09:56

Thanks for your thoughtful replies. They were very insightful and have helped me very much. Thank you for sharing your experiences!

Re: Baptism?

Author: jms
Date: 01-10-04 14:27

ms. bohls,

baptism is about being welcomed into the world as a member of the christian church, and all that comes with it. why on earth would you baptise a child if not to make a public statement to a christian community that you wish your child to be welcomed as a member?

unless you don't mind having a christian child, this ceremony is a mistake.

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