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Encouraging Jewish Journeys Of Interfaith Families - Page 1

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Re: Responding to language

Author: Ed Case
Date: 08-07-02 08:18

We'd like to know how interfaith families respond to certain language used by a Jewish organization. This organization states that its mission includes "reaching out to and welcoming with respect intermarried couples, to encourage them to identify as Jewish households and raise and educate their children as Jews."
How do you respond to the following language that the organization also uses:
*It states that its primary mission is "helping to keep our children Jewish."
* It publicizes a resolution to "encourage Jewish parents [including intermarried parents who have chosen Judaism as the faith of their children] to let their children know that it is important to them that their children marry Jewish."
* It publicizes a resolution to encourage parents in interfaith marriages to raise their children as Jews, and conversion of non-Jewish spouses and partners in contemplated interfaith marriages.
How would you respond to the following language that might be used by the organization:
* "We are grateful to those interfaith couples who raise their children as Jews... Encouraging inmarriage and conversion... is not intended to be disrespectful, critical or judgmental of interfaith couples... To those who may feel offended, we ask you to understand the importance of trying to ensure future generations of Jews. This cannot be done without clearly stating our mission--'helping to keep our children Jewish.'"
The organization wants to know: "Given that the Jewish people comprise less than one quarter of one percent of the world's population, if Jewish organizations publicly encourage Jewish parents to encourage their children to marry Jewish, is this acceptable or offensive to interfaith families? Do you understand the Jewish community's need to promote in-marriage, Jew marrying Jew?"

Re:

Author: Jennifer
Date: 08-07-02 09:08

Ed:

Please excuse the informality of my responses. My first reactions are...

1. "reaching out to and welcoming with respect intermarried couples, to encourage them to identify as Jewish households and raise and educate their children as Jews." - - - - - Like it. I feel welcomed by and open to a group who wishes to 'encourage'.

2. "helping to keep our children Jewish." - - - Hmmm... - Although I personally understand the motivation behind this, this language sounds protective and constraining. Perhaps our children should be 'flourishing", "celebrating", or "embracing" Judaism?

3. "encourage Jewish parents [including intermarried parents who have chosen Judaism as the faith of their children] to let their children know that it is important to them that their children marry Jewish." - - - - -Again, I understand the motivation, but this doesn't stress the practice, understanding of or pride in Judaism, just technical aspect of "two Jews = pure-bred Jewish offspring".

4. "Encourage parents in interfaith marriages to raise their children as Jews, and conversion of non-Jewish spouses and partners in contemplated interfaith marriages." - - - - - -Ok. I am fine with an organization encouraging non-Jewish spouses at least think about conversion.

5. "We are grateful to those interfaith couples who raise their children as Jews... Encouraging inmarriage and conversion... is not intended to be disrespectful, critical or judgmental of interfaith couples... To those who may feel offended, we ask you to understand the importance of trying to ensure future generations of Jews. This cannot be done without clearly stating our mission--'helping to keep our children Jewish.'" - - - - - I like this because it better explains the motivation behind this mission. However, what difference do a dozen Jews make if they don't understand what it means to be Jewish? Shouldn't the mission be centered on practice, love, respect, exhibition of Judaism instead of bloodlines? The language, "keeping a child Jewish" sounds like breeding, not education to me. I also like the fact interfaith couples are thanked for their efforts to keep Judaism at the forefront. This can be a difficult task when you are feel your marriage isn't supported and told your kids aren't really Jewish. What motivation would a non-Jewish spouse have to embrace Judaism for his/her family and him/herself when they are told they don't belong, anyway?

I appreciate this site, its discussions and articles! Thanks for the forum and support!

Re:

Author: carol
Date: 08-09-02 10:36

Let me just say that I second nearly everything Jennifer said.

I am a bit less comfortable with the encouraging conversion part, but that is partly because it so goes against the non-evangelical current in Judaism (something I very much admire) and because I think someone who has agreed to raise their children in another faith has already taken a pretty big step and shouldn't be additionally pressured to also convert themselves.

Re: the above

Author: Lydia
Date: 08-09-02 14:34

I second what Jennifer and Carol said. I strongly agree that no one should feel pressured to convert to Judaism. It's against our tradition of not being evangelical and I don't know how someone who has been raised in one religion (i.e.: to believe that Jesus is the Messiah) can all of the sudden be expected (out of "love" for the spouse) to become a Jew and renounce his/her religion. Raising the children Jewish and participating in that process is a HUGE step.

Lydia

Re: Responding to language

Author: Dana Netherton
Date: 08-09-02 14:39

As the non-Jewish father of two Jewish boys in an intermarriage, I don't have problems with this language. As it happens, I'm firmly committed to my Christian church, so I (for one) would be astonished if I were to convert to Judaism. But I don't mind seeing this language in the context you've presented, so long as it continues to be presented in terms of "encouraging" and "helping" those who are interested, so that they can do what they really want to do.

Offering these options for people's consideration is fine, too, of course.

I could see problems starting to emerge if the language were to shift farther along the spectrum, to talk about discouraging those who want to do other things with their children. Keep the language positive, and IMHO you'll be fine. :-)

Re: Responding to language

Author: Orphese
Date: 08-09-02 15:59

I have no problem with the wording above as long as words like "encouraging children of interfaith marriages to marry Jewish" are used. What I can't abide is the taboo against marrying outside the faith. For someone to suggest that I should tell my children that they cannot and should not marry outside the Jewish faith is insulting to my interfaith marriage. It's like telling your children mommy and daddy's marriage is wrong and you have to marry a Jewish person to be right. I think the appropriate wording should be to enourage your children to marry another Jewish person but that you as their parents respect their choices no matter what.

Re:

Author: sarah tauber
Date: 08-10-02 06:42

I agree with many of the previous reactions. My question is: What is the reason behind wanting to ensure "future generations of Jews?" Is it just to keep the ethnic group alive and well? Why do mainstream organisations often send the message that two Jews, who may have no interest in Judaism or Jewish community life except now and again, are more interested in assuring "future generations of Jews"? It seems to me that there shoud be some sensitivity on the part of Jewish institutions about what values they hope to transmit by encouraging marriages between two Jews and that there should be some caution in assuming that somehow these values are automatically transmitted when two Jews marry. Has Judaism ever held that the only reason for Jews to marry other Jews is to "keep the tribe alive"? I would like to see the moral, spiritual, ethical and communal values that rabbinic Judaism espouses so beautifully emphasized, and articulated as important for families with one Jewish partner and for families with two Jewish partners. Statistics aside, I know plenty of Jewish households with two Jewish parents where there is very little Judaism going on.

Re:

Author: Felicia
Date: 08-11-02 04:15

As for the text which Ed Case posted:

I am very uneasy about the inclusion of a resolution to encourage non-Jewish spouses to convert, since (as Carol pointed out) Judaism is a non-evangelical religion. Conversion to Judaism is a huge commitment, and I don't think anybody should feel pressured to make such a big step.

Other than that, the aims of this organization seem very worthwhile and inoffensively-stated.

On another note: I think Sarah's remarks were very astute.

Efforts to encourage Jews to marry other Jews and raise Jewish families are very necessary -- but if Jews have no personal motivation to lead a Jewish lifestyle (because nobody ever bothered to educate them or show them the beauty of celebrating Jewish holidays, etc.) then these efforts will fall on deaf ears.

It seems that an intensive inventment in "in-reach" programs now may prevent the necessity of larger "out-reach" programs in a generation or two.

Re: Encouraging Jewish Journeys of Interfaith Families - Ed Case - 7.8.2002

Author: Andrew Sefton
Date: 08-11-02 20:52

I am the Jewish half of an interfaith couple.

*It states that its primary mission is "helping to keep our children Jewish."

I like the Reform movements choice in words by stating that it is important to reinforce "Jewish choices".
By stating that one wishes to keep children Jewish, all the is really required is to have a Jewish mother, which obviously says nothing about the child's lifelong commitment to Judaism the culture, or Judaism the religion. Is the hereditary nature of Judaism what the organization really wishes to impart?

* It publicizes a resolution to "encourage Jewish parents [including intermarried parents who have chosen Judaism as the faith of their children] to let their children know that it is important to them that their children marry Jewish."

Is the organization trying to justify raising children as Jewish by providing the statistics on interfaith marriage?
Is the organization simply looking for a check mark beside the child¡¯s name when asked whether s/he is Jewish or will the level of personal commitment come into play?
In a heterogeneous society, exactly how does the organization intend on corroborating its' position?
What happens when two non-Jewish parents inquire with the organization about raising their child as Jewish?

* It publicizes a resolution to encourage parents in interfaith marriages to raise their children as Jews, and conversion of non-Jewish spouses and partners in contemplated interfaith marriages.

Conversion is an option and may be the preferred option, but by overtly stating as such, I believe the position will be disregarded, although it does properly set expectations.
Given that the mandate of the organization is to keep Jewish children, how can the organization rationalize a child being raised "Jewish" by an interfaith couple?

* "We are grateful to those interfaith couples who raise their children as Jews... Encouraging in marriage and conversion... is not intended to be disrespectful, critical or judgmental of interfaith couples... To those who may feel offended, we ask you to understand the importance of trying to ensure future generations of Jews. This cannot be done without clearly stating our mission--'helping to keep our children Jewish.'"

I think the mission of the organization is incompatible for the market in which the organization is soliciting comments.

* The organization wants to know: "Given that the Jewish people comprise less than one quarter of one percent of the world's population, if Jewish organizations publicly encourage Jewish parents to encourage their children to marry Jewish, is this acceptable or offensive to interfaith families? Do you understand the Jewish community's need to promote in-marriage, Jew marrying Jew?"

As mentioned above, in a heterogeneous society, it will be difficult to promote homogeneity.

Re: Responding to language

Author: Phyllis Kliman
Date: 09-03-02 14:15

My daughter is Jewish is married to a Christian and live in an area that is not Jewish. There is no organized religion in their home and so I consider this a "Inter-faithless" family. I don't care for the language that the children "should" be raised Jewish to be fair to the Christian spouse as if being Jewish was the only reasonable choice. But I do feel a choice should be made and some religion chosen to join and follow to give the children some faith and a sense of community.

Language as the problem?

Author: Sean
Date: 09-05-02 09:59

I do have a problem with the language. It comes out of my background as a history teacher.

The language reminds me of other writings by people concerned with intermarraige. The Neo-Nazi movement in the 1970's published articles not disimilar from what you wrote. To preserve and not dilute were the words they used to cover for their racism. If a marraige had occurred the parents were to "ensure the survival of the race" through the children.

The 1960's saw similar fear from intermarraige between whites and blacks.

In 1989 the rap group 2 Live Crew sang the song black baby about how as whites and blacks had children blacks were the "winners" because the baby was black.

All of these are similar examples of what the wording of the Jewish group put out. By saying that it is important for children to marry Jewish instead of marry well they are implying that non-Jews are not worthy.

By stating that it is important that the children are raised Jewish because Jews compromise only 1/4 of one percent of the world's population is also misleading. By the numbers, I understand that there are now more Jews than there have ever been. How is this a problem?

This web site is dedicated to working through interfaith problems and I think that is a good thing. I also realize that the web site is run for the promotion of Judaism and that is fine too. However, from personal experience, whenever the topic of children comes up I almost always get pressured to raise our future children Jewish. I have only once been told to try to raise our future children Christian; which is a evangelical faith. Jewish people, on the other hand, go out of their way to weigh in on the issue. I do feel that it is a bit much. It is, quite frankly, offensive to me.

Sean

Response and help....

Author: Brett
Date: 10-23-02 10:43

I am a Christian male involved in a relationship with a Jewish girl. My family is worried that it one day will become too serious and breakup is in fact inevitable. I want to marry a Christian girl but I find that my current relationship is working for the time being. All the prior aside, I am also in an Introduction to Judaism class at school. I am doing a research paper on interfaith relationships (obviously Jewish related) and I was wondering if anyone had any input that I might be able to find helpful. There is really no set topic except from the viewpoint of the non-Jew in the marriage. I really have not been able to find any good, up-to-date information on the position of the non-Jew in the relationship. Some focal thought topics include: the Jewish perspective of the interfaith marriage from a reform standpoint; the difficulties and advantages associated with an interfaith marriage; any comments on the issue of interfaith marriage; and any other help as to where I can find recent information on the subject. Thank you all for your responses.

-Brett

resources for Brett

Author: Felicia
Date: 10-24-02 06:19

Hi Brett,

Many of the articles archived by this site were written by non-Jews in relationships with Jews. These may provide useful starting points for ideas for your research paper.

Go to the top of this page, click on "Archive," and start poking around!

Felicia

Response to Sean

Author: Elissa
Date: 11-10-03 12:13

I certainly do respect your point of view, and, as a non-practicing reform Jew in a committed relationship with a lapsed Catholic, I positively bristle at the mention of conversion: I would ask my partner to convert to Judaism no sooner than she would ask me to become a Catholic. It is not how I was raised; as a Jew, I was always taught that we do not -- we absolutely MUST not -- proselytize.

That said, I shudder at your remarks:
The number of Jews in the world -- people who willingly and freely identify as Jews by choice or by birth -- has been dwindlying for decades. Practicing Jews have been dying out in droves because of a number of issues (intermarriage, people leaving the cities and moving to rural areas like myself) and it is imperative for us as a people to both retain our heritage, and our history, and to never, ever forget who we are. Clearly, the most logical way for the number of Jews to grow in this world is for Jews to marry Jews and procreate, hence the oft-said phrase, "may our tribe increase." This is sometimes possible, but in our modern age, it's often not. People fall in love with the people they fall in love with, and that's that.

But never, ever have Jews been instructed to marry Jews so as to violently "cleanse" society -- ours or anyone else's. We just really don't want to lose 5000+ years of history because it's not modern or convenient anymore.

An ideal scenario, at least for me, is to raise our interfaith child (when I have one) in an interfaith manner: our child will attend Hebrew School and will be Bat Mitzvah. He or she will also attend the Unitarian Church of my partner's choice. And when asked what he or she "is," he or she will hopefully reply, "yes."

Re:

Author: scott
Date: 11-16-03 15:55

El;issa, a few commernts on what you wrote:

<<I certainly do respect your point of view, and, as a non-practicing reform Jew in a committed relationship with a lapsed Catholic, I positively bristle at the mention of conversion: I would ask my partner to convert to Judaism no sooner than she would ask me to become a Catholic. It is not how I was raised; as a Jew, I was always taught that we do not -- we absolutely MUST not -- proselytize. >>

Asking someone to consider conversion is not proeselytization. To proselytize is to actively go out and actively seek people for the souls purpose of converting them. That not what happenmd when a Jew and a nnonJews enter into a relationship with each other.

On a side note, there was a time, a short time, when Jews actually did proselytize. There is no prohibition on the torah agaisnt it. Jews have some havent employed it bvecause of the fear that it would bring foregin customs into our religion.

<<An ideal scenario, at least for me, is to raise our interfaith child (when I have one) in an interfaith manner: our child will attend Hebrew School and will be Bat Mitzvah. He or she will also attend the Unitarian Church of my partner's choice. And when asked what he or she "is," he or she will hopefully reply, "yes.">>

How will you do this? Even reform synagogues require that a child be rasied Jewish. The child wont be able to be bar/ bat mitzvahed if it were discovered that your child attened church.

Just some things to think about, elissa.

Scott

Re: Attending Church

Author: jenny genser
Date: 11-17-03 07:03

Reform allows a an interfaith child to have a Bar/Bat Mitzvah if even if such child attends church from time to time with their non-Jewish parent (personally, I would recommend that ALL Jewish children attend an occasional church service, from a variety of denominations, to further communication and dialog).

What Reform (rightly so, in my opinion) won't do is allow a child to have a Bar/Bat Mitzvah if such a child is also being educated as a Christian. That means baptism, first communion, relgious education, and the like. There is also the logistical problem of trying to be too places at one time; since Reform and Christian religous education classes typically both occur on Sunday mornings (Jewish classes are also typically Wednesday evenings for older kids preparing for their Bar/Bat Mitzvah).

Re:

Author: scott
Date: 11-17-03 13:35

Jenny,

I think as an educatinal experience, it is good to attend the religious services of other religions. When you are in an interfaith family though... it can be a fine line between a religious and/or an educational experience.

I have been to church weddings, and have no problem going to a funeral at a church. When you are there, you should refrain form engaging in any prayer... even and especially saying "amen".. doing so means you are actually worshiping another diety. "Amen" comes from the hebrew word emunah, and means " I believe" . Jews do not belive in another diety, allah, jesus, etc.

I cannot see why, other for purely educational reason, anyone being raised Jewish would attend a chgurch service other than the reason listed above, funral, wedding, etc. A non-Jewish parent raising their child Jewish would have not any reason to take their child to church. Rasing the child Jewish means not going to church for religious reasons- period. Other wise you have an interfaith child... not a Jewish child.

Re:

Author: Ashley
Date: 11-21-03 22:40

Scott-

This is in no way a hostile correction to your posting, but a clarification does need to be made. Christians do not worship "another diety." Christianity is a monotheistic faith. There is only ONE Judeo-Christian G-d. Diety worshipping would violate the First Commandment, which holds true for Jews and Christians alike.

Re: One? or more?

Author: Rosie
Date: 12-03-03 20:01

Ashley,

Some Christians believe that Jesus is God, or they believe in this concept of a Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). Even if they say the three parts of the trinity are all the same one, it's still different from what Jews believe. Jews don't believe Jesus is God, nor even part of God.

Re: Christianity and Monotheism

Author: jenny genser
Date: 12-05-03 09:23

Those Christians who believe in the Trinity believe in one God who has three aspects -- Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Obviously Jews don't believe this. However, neither do Jews or Christians believe in everything that Muslims believe in (and vice versa).

That doesn't change the fact that all three faiths are commonly held to be monotheistic.

Re: Christianity and Monotheism

Author: Rosie
Date: 12-05-03 09:52

I know that all three religions are commonly held to be monotheistic, but I seriously doubt that any Christian pastor or priest would be willing to refrain from mentioning Jesus or saying "In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" just to be sensitive to Jews and Muslims.

Re: attending church

Author: rebecca
Date: 12-06-03 23:32

I am a Jewish person in an interfaith relationship. It is VERY important to me that, when we have children, we raise them Jewish. How do I "convince" my partner of this? How do I explain that our children cannot attend church without being insulting to my partner? If my partner does not convert to Judaism, how can I justify having "Jewish" children? What about my partner's family -- won't they want to celebrate Christian holidays, like Christmas? How do you negotiate little things like Christmas presents and family holidays?

Re: Rebecca's post

Author: BobP
Date: 12-08-03 12:35

Rebecca

How would you feel if your partner asked the question "how can I convince my partner not to include Judaism or go to synagogue with our children"? To me, this is the answer your question <<How do I explain that our children cannot attend church without being insulting to my partner?>>

Unless your partner converts (and conversion should be only for genuine beliefs and not for "convenience"), you will have an interfaith home, regardless of the level of observance. And your partners family will not be Jewish so there will be non-Jewish Grandparents, and I would guess aunts, uncles, and cousins anyway.

I hope you have a deep conversation with your partner, and "lay your cards on the table". Your partner may have no problem with having an exclusively Jewish home. If so, the extended family can be dealt with since your partner is with you on this. If not, then you need to decide where the relationship goes from here, and how much "non-Jewishness" is OK with you. This should be done before you have children, although be aware that the birth of a child can bring out feelings that were previously unimportant.

To answer your question <<... how can I justify having "Jewish" children?>>
you don't need to. Since you're Jewish, your children will be Jewish. Whether they embrace Judaism, or it's just another part of their heritage (like say being Irish) depends on how they are raised.

Good luck to you. I hope how things work out. Let us know.

Bob

Re: Rosanne Levitt by Dawn K.

Author: Lynne Wolfe
Date: 02-20-04 12:25

Rosanne will be missed! You are right, Dawn...we are a small passionate group doing this work. From across the country, I have depended on Rosanne like you have...we are each others sounding boards, and we need to share when we have the lives of those we are helping in our hands. And yes...I too have her home number...she is still counted in as far as I am concerned!

All the BEST dear Rosanne...gone "officially"...but you are not off the hook!!

Re: Rebecca and her partner

Author: Ellen
Date: 02-20-04 14:41

Rebecca,

In answer to your question about how your partner will feel about your wish to raise the children as Jews, I would really have to say that you know your partner better than anyone here does. He or she may be very open to it, not really caring about his or her religious background at all, or he or she may feel very threatened about it, if he or she does care and wants to pass his or her religion on to the children. Will he or she feel left out of the family if he or she is the only member of the family with his or her religion?

I use "he or she" on purpose, because it might make a difference. If your partner is male and you plan to procreate children according to the traditional male/female model, I would say that it's pretty straightforward. You, as the mother, determine the Jewishness of your children and you have the right to raise them that way. If he doesn't like it, he can hit the road.

However, if you and your partner are both women, then you may have to do some more careful negotiating. Have you decided which one of you will get pregnant, or will you adopt? In a lesbian relationship, especially if neither one has a stronger biological connection to the baby than the other one has, I would think both partners should have an exactly equal say in a matter such as choosing a religion for the child. If you are not in agreement about religion, then I think there will be much more potential for conflict and resentment, with one of you ultimately losing out, or the children feeling torn down the middle.

Good luck, and God bless!

Interfaith Observance...

Author: Wendy Rosen
Date: 01-12-05 02:04

Dear Rebecca,
I married and converted at the age of 17 (33 years ago)... throughout the years I have become the more "observant" member of
my entire family which includes two grown and confirmed children.
From the time our kids were very young they understood that they
were jewish... but they also understood that Grandma and Auntie were
Christian. Our home always reflected our Jewishness... even if the
Chanakuh decorations were a bit more lavish than our other jewish friends.
I support my christian familys traditions. We "help" grandma celebrate
HER holidays... and she HELPS US celebrate ours!
I see no conflict of interest here, just an expansion of their understanding
about how other cultures and religions express their traditions... mutual
respect can do no harm.
Other couples I know that are less "confident" about their own affiliations
and beliefs seem to have more difficulty with some of these issues...
My advice is to keep learning more and more about WHY you believe what
you do...
Wendy

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