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Interfaith High Holy Days - Page 1

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Author: InterfaithFamily.com Editor (---.home.net)
Date: 10-04-00 13:21

Post your responses to Ed Case's "The High Holy Days Through Interfaith Eyes: A Time the 'Strangers in Your Camp' are Included"

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hhd's

Author: paula yablonsky (64.209.30.---)
Date: 10-13-00 10:24

ed - thank you for sharing your feelings on the high holidays. i remember sitting before the bet din during my 'formal' conversion process and being asked by one of hte rabbis what my favorite jewish holiday was and me answering rosh hashanah. the rabbi chuckled, looked at me and said, he could see that i enjoyed apples and honey. i said yes, but it was much more than that - it was that time to reflect, remember, try to resolve to do better - the time to make amends with others and to make amends with myself.

i started looking at rosh hashanah this way long before i chose judaism. this is still my favorite holiday with sukkot coming in a close second!

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High Holy Days

Author: InterfaithFamily.com Editor (---.ne.mediaone.net)
Date: 12-14-00 16:42

Please post your comments and responses to our articles on the Jewish High Holy Days, on this bulletin board. We'd like to know what YOU think!

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Author: A (---.ne.mediaone.net)
Date: 12-14-00 16:44

Original Date: 10-08-2000 15:05

My fiance's family has been very welcoming to me and even offered us tickets to High Holiday services at the shul. My fiance accepted this year ( a real shocker for everyone since he has not gone much since HS), but I declined. I had very good practical reasons for not going (none of which have to do with my beliefs as a
Catholic). However, now I wish that I had gone because I'd appreciate an offer of some outreach to our family from the shul. I've gotten over the fact that there was no way that the rabbi there would have married us. I'm not perturbed that our kids won't be considered Jewish unless I convert. But I'm puzzled that the rabbi doesn't seem interested in knowing whether I support my future husband's practice of Judaism. He was bar mitzvahed and confirmed in that community and his parents are in good standing there. Because we are in a period of life transition and my fiance is rediscovering Judaism, I thought that we'd receive some sort of courtesy call. Nope. It's like we're invisible or maybe that to acknowledge we exist seems too much like accepting us. Anyway, I'd love to talk with someone about how I can be more supportive of a Jewish life for my fiance. As my fiance becomes more religious, I anticipate that I will have to make adjustments in the way we live. Just stopping at Fresh Fields to bring home a challah on Friday night probably won't be sufficient support. He's not interested in keeping a kosher home, but we've agreed to stop having pork products. I think a talk with an understanding rabbi would help us to better define what we can and want to do. But maybe, I am just making assumptions about a rabbi's duties based upon what priests do with interfaith couples.

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response and general observation

Author: Bob P. (---.bankone.com)
Date: 01-24-01 12:50

I am Jewish and my wife of 26 years is Catholic. I have been visiting this site as I am "rediscovering" Judiasm and my wife is "discovering" along with me. We started attending Shabbat services weekly last September and we will both be attending a Introduction to Judiasm class (along with our 25YO daughter) starting next month. I now realize there is so much I never learned (or didn't care to learn to at the time).

To "A" (the latest post): One thing we did was to make an appointment with the Rabbi at the congregation we have been attending. He was extremely supportive of us as we begin our "journey". Most congregations (except Orthodox) would accept both of you even if you have no plans to convert. I suggest you take a class or two (I wish these were around when I married). Do not take the fact that you or your fiance did not receive a "courtesy call" as having any meaning. Make an appointment with the Rabbi to discuss your situation. Good Luck.

To the editor:
I don't know if it's possible, but a "link" to the original article would be helpful.
Many times I'm reading posts and the first one says to "post your response to the
article" but I can't find the article to read.

InterfaithFamily.com Editor wrote:
-------------------------------
Post your responses to Ed Case's "The High Holy Days Through Interfaith Eyes: A Time the 'Strangers in Your Camp' are Included"

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How's this for an interfaith family?!

Author: Steven (---.ADMINISTAFF.COM)
Date: 09-07-01 12:37

When my partner decided to affiliate with a synagogue, we began to visit several here in town. Along with the fact that he is Jewish and I am Christian, we have the added "complication" that we are both men. We visited both Reform and Conservative and found (much to our surprise) that the Conservative congregation was much more welcoming and warm.

We met with the Rabbi and several members of the membership committee and were overwhelmed at how wonderfully relaxed they were with a male interfaith couple. They even asked me, the Christian, to serve on the Social Justice Committee. The Rabbi gave us two tickets to High Holy Days even though my partner had not yet joined the Shul. I have to admit that while the services were fascinating and rich in tradition and history, I felt like a total outsider. When do you stand? When do you sit? Should I move to the aisle when the Torah passes? Should I wear a tallit? It was, after all, my first time and I know that I will become more comfortable as time goes by, but it is something to get used to.

This year we have both joined the Shul choir and are looking forward to singing at Selikot services this weekend.

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Author: mimi (---.ny5030.east.verizon.net)
Date: 09-19-01 15:39

My boyfriend is Jewish. I am not. He is an atheist. I haven't figured it out yet. We've discussed so many issues-I am quite willing to learn about Judaism, and to raise children Jewish. I am concerned that conversion would be emblematic-and actually, he has never requested that I convert, nor would his parents ever ask it outright. I certainly do not blame his mother (whom I very much like and get along with!) for probably really wishing that I would. How could she not? His Jewishness is absolutely a strong part of his identity. The concern here is that his parents both extended (and this is to their great credit) an invitation to attend synagogue and their dinners and it is actually my sweetie who is uncomfortable with me going. That's fine. I understand, this time. But I gently/firmly reminded him that even though he thought it would be "inappropriate" for me to go with them Tuesday morning, that it would be even less appropriate to raise children Jewish and NOT go with them to the synagogue. He took the point well. We are not prone to fighting or yelling, being quite academic and diplomatic both. I just need a little help easing him in to letting me take some part-because it has to start eventually, and I can't do it by myself. Anyone with words of advice?
Incidentally, we both live in Manhattan, and the last week I've had a difficult time not dissolving in to tears every few minutes. I am sure that the nation, and particularly anyone in this borough of New York, are tremendously grateful for any prayers and thoughts sent our way. Especially for the uniformed services downtown...
My best regards to this board and to IFF,
Mimosa

InterfaithFamily.com Editor wrote:
-------------------------------
Post your responses to Ed Case's "The High Holy Days Through Interfaith Eyes: A Time the 'Strangers in Your Camp' are Included"

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New High Holy Day articles

Author: InterfaithFamily.com Editor (---.ne.mediaone.net)
Date: 09-09-01 08:00

Please post your responses to our new High Holy Day articles here

<a href="article/issue68/aharon.phtml">A Distillation of Life: "Reflections on Our First High Holidays"</a> By Elisha Aharon
<a href="article/issue68/schulman.phtml">Grandparenting for the High Holidays</a> By Zell Schulman
<a href="article/issue68/kennedy.phtml">How My Non-Jewish, Atheist Husband Helps Celebrate the Jewish Holidays</a> By Staci Kennedy
<a href="article/issue68/caplane.phtml">Handling the High Holidays: Strategies Interfaith Families Use</a> By Ronnie Caplane
<a href="article/issue68/joi.phtml">One for Your High Holidays Check List: "Welcoming the Stranger"</a> By Rabbi Kerry M. Olitzky

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synagogue

Author: sg (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 09-10-01 16:50

My boyfriend and i are doing the holidays together for the first time this year. I am jewish and he is not. He does not plan to convert and does not practice any religion. We plan to raise our children with judaism as we see the importance of religion while growing up. I am sad that my parents will not allow him to attend services with the family because of what other people will think. He and i will go to temple one day ourselves(a differnt temple) and one day i will go with my parents. it is sad that it is separate and i fear that is years to come the separation will increase. this website is wonderful for support and advice- thank you

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sg's posting

Author: InterfaithFamily.com Editor (---.ne.mediaone.net)
Date: 09-10-01 23:16

We were saddened by sg's posting but wish her luck in the future. One thing we learn on this site is that people's attitudes often change over time. Instead of becoming more separate over time, perhaps sg's parents will become more accepting of her relationship and her boyfriend over time and when they do, perhaps they will invite him to attend services with the family. We certainly think that it would be reinforcing of her boyfriend's willingness to participate in raising Jewish children if sg's parents would welcome and invite him to be with him, instead of refusing to include him. Hopefully they will realize that some day.

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Mimi's posting

Author: mpfreed (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 09-20-01 14:04

To Mimi,

I am surprised that your boyfriend, who claims to be an atheist, even bothered to go to synagogue on Tuesday - or was it just out of respect of his parents wishes ? I am not surprised you haven't figured it out yet - let us know when you do ! There are many Jews like him. In fact according to the 1990 US National Jewish Survey as many as 20% of the core 5.5 million Jews were in the category JNR = Jews without religion. Most of them will be atheist or agnostic. I don't hold out much hope for any children you may have being brought up Jewish.

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mimi

Author: Response (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 09-20-01 23:30

I agree with mpfreed that it is doubtful that any children you may have will be brought up Jewish. Mimi, May I ask you what religion if any were you born into? Did you grow up practicing your religion along with your parents and other family members? If you grow up with religion in your life, I would suggest you rejoin the religion you were raise with and bring your children up in that religion as well. Sorry to say your boyfriend, whether atheist or agnostic would be a poor example to your children.

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In defense of atheists

Author: Susan (---.milwaukee.k12.wi.us)
Date: 09-21-01 13:07

As for mimi's atheist boyfriend, I think mpfreed was wrong to condemn him utterly as a poor role model. The fact that they live in Manhattan (my prayers are with all of you there, by the way) gives us some cause for hope.

My husband's grandfather was an atheist and a fine role model for his family. All right, so he was a freethinker and a political radical, but he was a good Jew. His personal theological views didn't prevent his home from being strictly kosher and it didn't stop his children and grandchildren from going to orthodox synagogues and marrying Jews. He was active in the Jewish community, the Workmen's Circle, and the Yiddish Theater. Remember the man in Leo Rosten's Joys of Yiddish who said his friend Goldberg went to shul to talk to God and he went to shul to talk to Goldberg? All right, so maybe nowhere outside of New York or Israel is it possible to be "Culturally Jewish" anymore, but as long as that commitment to <I> Yidishkeyt </i> remains strong, getting back the belief in God is the easy part, and it can come any time.

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Susan

Author: S (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 09-21-01 19:52

Your husbands grandfather was not an atheist. He was just unsure of his organize religion (Judaism)and it would apply to any other organized religion he belonged to in general. He would not have participated in any organized religious customs if he were an atheist,not even for appearance. Sorry but I disagree. Your husbands grandfather seems to me to have been an agnostic.

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Author: mpfreed (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 09-22-01 18:20

To Susan:

You don't say so, but chances are that your husband's grandfather was an immigrant or the child of immigrants and was brought up in a home that was steeped in Yiddishkeit. And what about his wife. Did she share his atheistic views ? I bet it was her who was the main cause for the family turning out so well Jewishly. However, I doubt whether any Jewish atheist of the present generation would be so knowledgeable of, or as sympathetic to, Judaism. There are many secular Jews (a term that in previous times would have been an oxymoron) but there is no doubt that secular Judaism without any religious content is not so easily transmittable to succeeding generations. Yet you are right - they can flourish in large Jewish centres much more easily without being lost to Judaism and the Jewish community. The best example is Israel where transmission to succeeding generations is practically guaranteed because of the propinquity of very many like minded secular Jews and the near impossibility of marriage to a non Jew.

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Author: v (---.72.alltel.net)
Date: 09-22-01 18:44

I hope someone out there can help me. As we move through High Holy Days again this year I again find myself sitting alone in the congregation and every year it depresses me. My husband and I have been married 11 years and we have one child, a six-year old boy. Before our son was born we agreed that he would be raised Jewish, but after his birth, my husband "reneged" on our agreement.

You see, my husband is a non-practicing Christian and, even after all these years, still has not told his family that I am Jewish and that our son is being raised Jewish. When our boy was very young, my husband did participate in our Sabbath and Holiday celebrations except for attending a synagogue service with us. All that changed about 3 years ago when our son started at a Jewish preschool. I don't know what happened and he won't tell me. I don't mind helping him celebrate his holidays or doing much of the work for them, but (and I hate to admit this) I actually stopped lighting candles and saying prayers on friday nights just to keep peace in the house!

Our son is in first grade now and he strongly identifies himself as being Jewish, but I'm afraid that will change soon because my husband has a fit when he finds out that I'm keeping our boy home for a Jewish holiday or when he takes his miniature Torah scroll to show-n-tell. This has been going on for years and its getting harder to deal with every year. I've thought about divorce, but I'm not ready to take that step. I'm sorry this is so long, but I need to talk to someone who can understand what I'm going through.

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Author: J (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 09-22-01 20:20

I find it hard to believe that after 11 years of marriage your husband has not told his family that you are Jewish, let alone your son. You say your husband is a non-practicing Christian. I take that to mean he does not attend church on Sunday's. That does not mean he is no longer a Christian. It does not mean he no longer believes in Jesus. You said he did not join you in Synagogue either. It's clear to see your husband is not into organized religious gatherings. There are Jew that are non-practicing, yet they still consider themselves Jewish. Your husband is a Christian who has realized that he is finding it difficult, if not impossible to bond with his son if he is raised a different faith than his own. You husband is unable to tell you this, the same as he was unable to tell his family of your faith. V, I can't believe that in all the years you and your husband have been together that you did not get the slightest vibe from him, that he would be unable to participate in Judaism. This would have prepared you for his not wanting his son to be raised in this faith as well. Make no mistake Christians do believe in the Old Testament, but also believe in the New Testament. I feel for you, you have a real problem. You must decide if you love your husband enough to forgive him for his enableity to be open with you about this issue and also do you love him enough to compromise by having your son learn about Christianity as well as Judaism. It won't make your son less of Jew, if he is able to understand the Christian religion and that it was started by Jews.

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Hello V

Author: Elie Aharon (---.cpinternet.com)
Date: 09-23-01 01:10

(First of all, J: What do you know about this woman's husband? This is not a site for discussing or promoting Christian beliefs. The "Old Testament" is not the Torah. If you want to know why, ask a rabbi.)

Hello V,
Sure sounds uncomfortable for you. It's very difficult to carry on alone after things change. The fact that you are concerned and disturbed is an indication of how much you want your husband's participation again. I can only imagine how you must feel.

It's so positive that you have been involved in a synagogue with your son. And it sounds like your son is taking pride in himself as a Jew, which includes you too! Perhaps you could talk to your rabbi about what resources might be available to help your husband find a way he could be involved. Many synagogues now are getting good at communicating and helping non-Jewish partners become comfortably involved. Quite a few have "outreach" programs that help. That's what you might ask about, if you didn't already know.

I hope you find your way, and a way to help your husband adjust. These things are often hard to discuss; on the other hand, the rewards are deep, too, if there is a way.

My best wishes,

Elie Aharon

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atheists and agnostics

Author: Susan (---.milwaukee.k12.wi.us)
Date: 09-23-01 22:32

S:

There are Jews who do participate in rituals and who do believe in what you call "organized religion" while still being atheists. Check out the Reconstructionist movement if you think I'm making this up. As for this modern "organized religion" concept, not everybody has historically thought in those terms, especially not Russian Jewish immigrants a century ago.

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Reconstructionist atheists?

Author: Elie Aharon (---.cpinternet.com)
Date: 09-24-01 00:39

On behalf of Reconstructionist Jews... Readers **please** ignore the previous comment on atheism and Reconstructionism. (Rabbi M. Kaplan, its founder, would turn in his grave). Thanks.

(The Reconstructionist Judaism website is www.jrf.org , and it is interesting)

Elie Aharon

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Mr. Know-It-All

Author: Susan (---.milwaukee.k12.wi.us)
Date: 09-24-01 14:46

The previous poster may know a little something about Mordecai Kaplan, but he obviously doesn't know every Reconstructionist Jew in the world very well. Reconstructionism is probably the most inclusive and diverse movement within Judaism, welcoming gay, lesbian, patrilineal, intermarried, and yes, atheist people. Anyone who visits the Reconstructionist website can check out their "frequently asked questions" and will discover that the Reconstructionist answer to the question "do I have to believe in God to be a Jew?" is, in fact, simply put, "No."

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Reconstructionism and G-d

Author: Elie Aharon (---.cpinternet.com)
Date: 09-24-01 18:02

About Reconstructionism: for a balanced view, I'd encourage seeing the website.
It's www.jrf.org
I'll reproduce two salient quotes here, as a shortcut (from "freq. asked quest's"):
1) "Do Reconstructionists believe in God?"

"Definitely. We believe that there is one God, but there are many ways of understanding and talking about God." ...and an explanation continues.

2)"Do I have to believe in God to be a Jew?"

"No." ...again, with an explanation.

Because there are undoubtedly people coming to this website who are seeking to know more, balanced information is vital, it seems to me.
Elie Aharon

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Elie Aharon

Author: J (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 09-24-01 18:28

My statement was not meant to convert,it was meant to bring out the reality of this situation. I see no use trying to fill V with false hopes.

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people who just want to argue

Author: Susan (---.as7.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net)
Date: 09-26-01 07:15

Does the Reconstructionist Federation claim that all its members believe in G-d? Definitely not. Due to widespread prejudice against atheists, a prejudice which the other poster obviously shares, they need to be circumspect in discussiong atheism. An Official Organizational Website is the modern equivalent of the old Glossy Public Relations Brochure. They can not write "We're harboring a bunch of atheists in or organization" any more easily than "We're harboring a bunch of blatant homosexuals in our organization" or "The Jewishness of some of our members is questionable." They have to use diplomatic language. The other poster would do well to learn something about diplomatic language.

To return to the point I was trying to make before we were interrupted, there's much more to Judaism than simply believing in G-d. After all, belief in G-d is a universal concept in all western religions (and depending on how we define the term, in all other religions as well). That Reconstructionist website goes on to tell us that they are not about "believing" so much as "belonging." If we try to distill Judaism to a lowest common denominator and ignore everything about it which makes it unique, then we really sort of destroy the justification for attending high holiday services or even being Jewish at all.

May all of you have an easy fast and be sealed for a year of good and peaceful year.

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3 things, the last a question

Author: Elie Aharon (---.cpinternet.com)
Date: 09-26-01 12:07

ok...
(1) in the belief that nearly all of the readers of this list are reasonable people who can figure out reality from dreck, I again refer them to the Reconstructionist website at www.jrf.org

Being unable to read the minds of the creators of their site, I take what they say at face value.

(2) Susan... there's a nice Buddhist story: "who owns a refused gift?" the wise one asked. "the giver still owns it" is the reply. In that spirit, I return to you, now and in the future, your contentiousness and righteousness. You'll post here, or not, but any fire you fuel will be yours, not mine.

Sorry, but you're done. Toast. *poof* gone ;-)

(3) Now, can we get back to the subject... the High Holy Days, I believe. I want to ask as we move into Yom Kippur tonight... what were some experiences of the Rosh H and Yom K services? Positives, negatives?

Elie Aharon

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High Holidays

Author: Kelly (---.wi.rr.com)
Date: 09-29-01 23:07

I am 22, and this year was my third year attending Rosh Hashanah service with my boyfriend's family. I love going, and I am actually beginning to pick out some of the Hebrew words in the text. I love going to his temple with him, although he is not too religious; I have only been there for Rosh Hashanah, and then two bar mitzvahs. He is going to help me start to learn Hebrew, and I am very excited. I can't imagine being in a relationship with somebody, and not even being able to agree to celebrate their holiday with them, or have them suggest you are not wanted at their temple! This is the most basic of "sacrifices" and/or adjustments.

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Kelly

Author: Jan (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 09-30-01 11:05

You did not meantion, so I am assuming that you boyfriend and you are an interfaith couple. If so, is your boyfriend as excited to spend the holidays of your faith with you and your family as you are to spend holidays with him and his family. If so, then you have a good thing going. Hope it works out.

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Author: Phyllis (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 09-30-01 21:43

My girlfriend and I and our two non-Jewish husbands went to Yom Kippur services this year. I always feel so 'free' near the end of Neilah, after a day of fasting and repentance, knowing that God has forgiven my sins. However, I was sad to see my husband have a different feeling. He was jealous that he has no way of knowing whether or not God forgave his sins. As a non-Jew, he said, Yom Kippur has no dealing with him. When we told my girlfriend's husband (who is more religious than my husband) about our two views, he mocked us. (Well, he TRIED not to, but it came through anyway. -- He IS a tolerant guy.) To paraphrase him, he said that a day of fasting and prayer for forgiveness is a waste of time because Jesus died for all of our sins. I tried to explain how God doesn't forgive our sins between us and other people, only between us and Him -- but the conversation was NOT productive.

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Another Christian prespective

Author: Steven (---.ADMINISTAFF.COM)
Date: 10-01-01 12:56

To add to the message that I posted below...

The High Holy Days were terrific! My partner received a total of 2 honors and we attended all services together. I especially love Kol Nidre, Tzedek Umishpat, and Create Me Anew. The poetry is stunning.

As a Christian I refuse to get bogged down in a game of "Bible Verse Battleship". I entered into this relationship knowing that he is a Conservative Jew and very devoted to his faith. Likewise, he knows that I am Christian and very active in my church. We are both very blessed to have minds that are open and willing to experience a tradition that is different from the one we grew up with. Thank G-d I'm not one of those "We're the only ones who are right" Christians!

I stood with the congregation at the Shul and pictured what it must have been like when Christ and his family celebrated the High Holy Days. After all, he was Jewish. As our Hazzan and choir performed the Kol Nidre I wondered if Christ enjoyed it as much then as I do now. I sang along (with the transliteration of course) as much as I could and tried to hear Christ's voice as he sang the very same words.

The High Holy Days actually bring me closer to my Christianity than I ever expected.

One final note: After the shofar service we jumped in the car and left his conservative synagogue to go to my Methodist church to begin Handel's Messiah rehearsals for my "High Holy Days" in December. The Christian and the Jew, side by side in the tenor section.

Open your minds people. Live, love, laugh, sing, worship - TOGETHER!!!

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Author: mpfreed (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 10-03-01 19:33

To Steven,

Sorry to disabuse you, but Kol Nidre was composed many centuries after the time of Jesus.

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to jan

Author: Kelly (---.net.wisc.edu)
Date: 10-05-01 12:01

Jan,
Yes, My boyfriend comes to church with my family on Easter, and he loves celebrating Christmas at our house. We always get each other both Chanukah and Christmas gifts, but he get a bigger Chanukah one, while I get a bigger Christmas gift. It works out good. He was in a relationship with a Jewish girl before I met him, and he said it's kind of better this way, because there's no big decision on whose house to go to for Passover, or whose temple to go to for Rosh Hashanah. His parents are divorced, too, so there's 3 families to divide time between! I told him that I could never not have a Chrismas tree in my house, and he said ok as long as we have Chanukah, too.

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Ignore, this is just a test.

Author: IFF editor (---.ne.mediaone.net)
Date: 12-18-01 10:49

Ignore, this is just a test.

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software test

Author: Ronnie Friedland (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 02-14-02 11:37

ignore

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