Intermarriage and the Conservative Movement - Page 1

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Welcome to our discussions!

Author: InterfaithFamily.com Editors (---.reonbroadband.com)
Date: 03-27-02 13:50

We're pleased to tell you that we've changed our online discussions--and we invite you to join them! When you submit a message, it will be reviewed by our moderators before it is posted. While we will accept messages that are realistic about the challenges posed by interfaith relationships, we won't allow people to vent their opposition to intermarriage, as has happened in the past. Our goal is to make our discussions a welcoming and safe place for people dealing with interfaith relationships to turn for helpful information and support. So please--join our discussions!

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Intermarriage and the Conservative Movement

Author: Robin Margolis (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 07-06-02 12:06

7/6/02

Dear Friends: I heard a story a few months ago that the Conservative movement expelled a synagogue that was jointly affiliated (Conservative/Reform) for accepting as members patrilineal Jews (children of Jewish fathers and Christian mothers).

I'm the child of an Orthodox Jewish mother and Episcopalian father, and was very distressed to hear this. I do activism on behalf of interfaith families. Can anyone else contribute any information on their Conservative shul's treatment of interfaith families, positive or negative?

Cordially,
Robin Margolis

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story about Conservative/Reform synagogue

Author: Felicia (212.117.136.---)
Date: 07-09-02 07:36

The Leadership Council of the Conservative Movement’s official policy regarding intermarriage and intermarried Jews can be found at http://www.uscj.org/intmar/pressmn.html (click on the link called “What does the Conservative Movement say about Intermarriage?”). It speaks at length about the importance policies of kiruv (outreach) to intermarried couples, about making them feel at ease in the Jewish community, and about welcoming and encouraging sincere converts. It also states clearly that the Conservative Movement holds by matrilineal descent only. It furthermore declares that:

“Only Jews may be members of Conservative congregations and affiliated organizations. However, non-Jewish partners are welcome to attend services and to participate in educational and social programs.”

If the congregation in question was indeed accepting those with Jewish fathers (and not mothers) as full members of their synagogue, it seems clear that their membership policies contradicted those of the Conservative Movement. I assume they were asked to either conform to the standards of Conservative Judaism or to sever their affiliation with the Conservative Movement. This does not strike me as unreasonable.

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Re:

Author: Benjamin (---.rasserver.net)
Date: 07-11-02 22:32

I believe this turn of events happened about 1 1/2 years ago with a congregation in New Jersey. The congregation was affiliated with both the Reform and Conservative movements, a situation which developed after a Reform and Conservative congregation merged sometime in the 80s. The congregation had a Reform Rabbi, used the Reform liturgy, did not keep a kosher kitchen, and followed the Reform policy concerning conversion and patrilineal descent. The temple's own rabbi described it as a "traditional Reform temple".

Before making the decision to disaffiliate, the Conservative movement worked with the congregation for well over a year to see if the differences could be resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. Unfortunately, that turned out not to be possible.

As an intermarried Jew affiliated with a Conservative synagogue, I believe the Conservative movement made the right decision. As Felicia has pointed out, it is not reasonable to expect a movement to adopt another movement's policies. The Conservative movement, I believe, actually may have helped prevent emotional distress down the road: that is, if a child of a non-Jewish mother grows up in a Reform temple and is not converted, he/she will be accepted by Reform but not by Conservative. If the child knows that, he can agree or not, accept it or not. But the child will know where he stands and can make his own decisions as an adult. However, if this same child grew up in a synagogue affiliated with the Conservative movement and was accepted as fully Jewish there, he would have every reason to expect that every other Conservative synagogue (or a Conservative Rabbinical school) would accept him without conversion, something that would not be the case.

Robin, you asked about the experiences of intermarrieds in Conservative shuls. I can only say, from my own experience that I (and my wife!) have never felt anything but acceptance. There certainly are some differences from a Reform temple, differences that are not to everyone's liking. Howsever, one person I know who is intermarried said she appreciates the warm and welcoming atmosphere while at the same time maintaining standards that recognize the differences, because it is, in her words, recognizing reality. Just as a church might be very accepting of and welcoming to a Jewish spouse while not letting them become an official member or participate in certain rituals without actually converting (which is precisely the Conservative movement's policy with a non-Jewish spouse), a synagogue can welcome a non-Jewish spouse within the parameters that make it a Conservative synagogue in the first place.

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Re:

Author: Felicia (212.199.177.---)
Date: 07-12-02 06:53

Hi Benjamin & Robin -- I think this article describes the incident in question:

/article/issue54/friedman.phtml

The congregation is Ner Tamid in Bloomfield, NJ (http://www.nertamid.org/).

Felicia

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Re: Ner Tamid's Disaffiliation

Author: Marc Wilson (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 07-23-02 15:50

The United Synagogue's position is myopic and appalling, but not unexpected from a movement that has historically had little self-identity outside of trying to be frum when the wind blew frum, and frei when the wind blew frei. Its criticism of orthodoxy in times past (and today) takes to task orthodoxy's preoccupation with "standards" over the hearts-and-souls of "the people." They, sadly, have taken up residence in the same bed.

If only they would look with empathy, rather than prejudice, at the nature and needs of the people that they move to disenfranchise. They would find them no better, perhaps, but certainly no worse, than the folks who have passed this capricious test for enfranchisement. And then, what right do we have to sit as judge-and-jury over the definitions of "better" and "worse."

If only for a kinder, gentler Jewish disposition. Too much to ask, I guess, from a Judaism that is ravaged by hyper-institutionalism. Somehow, Yiddishkeit will survive this, too, likely with the help, not the hindrance, of this "erev rav" that wishes to traverse the wilderness with us.

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Re: Ner Tamid's Disaffiliation

Author: Janet (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 07-24-02 07:03

Mazal Tov to Marc Wilson............

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Ruth Goss' article

Author: Julie (204.0.181.---)
Date: 11-15-02 13:15

Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I am Jewish, raised in a conservative shul, and married to a traditional Catholic. Since we got married last year, we've pretty much steered clear of either faith except at High Holy Days and Christmas, when we're with our families. We're relatively new to our city and haven't joined a congregation here, mostly because I'm a little scared. I would like to continue going to a conservative synagogue but have been very hesitant. (Even a close friend who is a member of the conservative synagogue made me feel like we shouldn't join.)

Your article helped reassure me that I am making the right decision. Thanks again Ruth!

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Rabbi Skolnik's Stance Wrong

Author: Robin Margolis (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 11-20-02 10:57

11/20/02

Dear Friends: I just finished reading the article in which Rabbi Skolnik described how the adult daughter of a Chinese man and a Jewish woman, who was bat mitzvah in his shul, has gone public with her distress at experiencing racial discrimination in his shul, and specifically, her distress at the apparent exclusion of her father from her bat mitzvah ceremony. She is now alienated from the Jewish community.

Rabbi Skolnik admits that he could have found "extra-halachic" ways to include her father in the ceremony, that did not violate halacha, and that would have made her father feel included.

But he then announces that he chose not to, because, apparently, he feels that there should be penalties for intermarriage.

Oh, please! Penalizing a thirteen year old girl and her parents! Who were raising her as a Jew! Who were members of his shul!

That's one Conservative shul to avoid. And that's yet another reason to be wary about joining shuls where the rabbi is opposed to intermarriage. Such a rabbi may justify his or her stance by stating that even though they won't perform an intermarriage, they will "welcome" the family to membership. Some rabbis are quite sincere about this and do honor their promise of welcome. However, with other rabbis --- and I have seen this elsewhere --- it means that they treat the family as second-class citizens long into the future.

As the adult child of an intermarriage (Jewish Orthodox mother and Episcopalian father), I have heard complaints about this from other adult children of intermarriage raised in Conservative and Reform shuls where the rabbi opposed intermarriage. Good for that young woman that she went public. The only way this kind of behavior will stop is if it is made public, and objected to.

Sincerely,
Robin Margolis

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Re: general

Author: Hilary (199.43.32.---)
Date: 12-18-02 12:19

I have been married to my husband for 10 years. We have 2 children - ages 4 years old and 8 months old. My husband comes from an Irish Catholic background though he has no affiliation with the church. His family is very respectful of Judaism. Our home is kosher and our children are being raised Jewish. We only celebrate the Jewish holidays in our home. My daughter is now approaching the age of asking many questions. I know that at this time, my husband would feel more comfortable with a reform synagogue but I grew up in a conservative household and Temple, was very involved with hebrew school, USY and particularly, Camp Ramah. I feel as though I have a very strong bond to Judaism but happened to have fallen in love with a non-Jew. I enjoy the ways of the conservative temple, however, I feel judged. Seems as though there are so many individuals who share these feelings. It helps to be able to commiserate.

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Re: general

Author: Susan (---.ml.com)
Date: 01-03-03 13:05

I am a conservative jew about to marry a non-practicing catholic next August 2003. We both decided to have a rabbi or cantor perform the ceremony although we are having a hard time finding a rabbi to perform the ceremony. If anyone can forward me any names of rabbis that officiate weddings for jews and non-jews I would greatly appreciate it. We live in the Princeton, NJ area. There are some rabbi's in North Jersey that would officiate but they are all booked.
Thanks!

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Re: general

Author: Irish (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 09-25-03 21:45

I have been with my man for about three years. We have a three year
old son together. My husband is Jewish and I am christian.
I wanted my husband to teach my son Hebrew but he didn't show
any interest so I learned a little Hebrew and taught him myself.

The real conflict though is our regigous beliefs. I teach my son about
Jesus and I have a picture of Jesus in my sons room. My husband is
upset by this yet has no interest in teaching our son any of his
religion or culture.

He gets upset at the idea of me knealing on the bed and saying a
bedtime prayer with my son. All things like this upset my husband.
I stopped buying candles with Christ on them so as not to upset
him... but I cannot compromise my beliefs with him. He makes it
impossible to compromise because he wants it either his way or
not at all.

It is my responsibility according to my religion to teach my son about
Christ and the love of God and the fact that Jesus died on the cross
for our sins. I have to plant that seed and then my son can make
his own choice later in his life.

I am wondering if anyone else has a similiar problem and can tell
me how they handle it or the best way to handle it.

I am very torn now and this is becoming a wall between us.

Thanks

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Re: general

Author: binarystar (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 09-28-03 09:13

9/28/03

Dear Irish:

It's the High Holidays (Rosh Hashanah), so technically I'm not supposed to be answering questions like this --- under Jewish law, it's "work" --- but I felt badly reading your letter, so I'll offer some thoughts.

By way of intro, I'm the child of an Orthodox Jewish mother and an Episcopalian father. I was raised Episcopalian, and switched to Judaism as an adult --- I am a Renewal Jew, but my three brothers are Christians.

The issues you raise are very complicated, and there is no "one size fits all" solution. I can make some recommendations, though, and urge you to act quickly before the conflict harms your marriage and messes up your child's future --- I have met many adult children of intermarriage who totally abandoned religion or joined other religions other than Christianity or Judaism because of their parents' constant quarrels over how the children were to be raised.

Suggestions:

1. Did you and your husband have an agreement about how to raise the children before you got married? what were the terms? are both of you abiding by them? or have one or the other of you backed away from the original agreement? or was there no agreement on how to raise the children?

No need to answer me about this. These questions are just for you to review.

2. Have you considered going to a couples counselor with your husband for a few visit? That can help both of you sort out the issues with a neutral third party.

3. There are many books for interfaith couples with advice for the situations that you would find very helpful. Just put in the word "interfaith marriage" in your search engine, and you'll find dozens of books. Also, this website has links to all kinds of resources. I would look up those books on Amazon.com, check out the sample pages preview, and get the books that seem most helpful to you.

4. You and your husband need to sit down and be really, really, really honest with yourselves about what you want. It's time for a talk.

Both of you are --- I think unconsciously --- giving each other a lot of mixed messages.

He seems to be telling you: "I'm a secular Jew. I don't want you to raise our son as a Christian. But --- I won't help you teach him Hebrew or Jewish culture or take him to synagogue, or do anything. He's going to be a secular Jew like me, vaguely Jewish, but with no knowlege."

This is a common problem in intermarriages I have seen --- many secular Jewish men intermarry, and then expect wives who were raised as Christians to raise the children as Jews, because childcare is "women's work" and they themselves aren't willing to learn what's necessary and teach the kids. That's not fair to you.

You seem to be telling him: "I'm a committed evangelical Christian. I want to raise our son as a Christian, since you're not going to help me raise him as a Jew. But --- I will state that the child can "choose" when he grows up, even though the way I'm bringing him up is an attempt to make the boy into a Christian, so that he will have no choice."

This is also a common problem in intermarriages I have seen --- many Christian women marry Jewish men, with the assumption on both sides that the child will be raised as "both" or "allowed to choose", but then when the child is born, the mother is so bonded because of love for the child, that she raises the child as a Christian, despite previous understandings to raise the child as a Jew, or "both". That's not fair to your husband.

You may have to be very direct with your husband. You may have to say to him: "If you won't help me raise the boy as a Jew, then I'm going to raise him as a Christian. What's it going to be?"

But I strongly urge that you and your husband see a couples counselor or marriage therapist. A neutral third person could help you both see what is really important to you. You don't want the marriage to be stressed, or end in divorce, and you don't want your kid to grow up despising both religions.

I wish the best of luck.

Cordially,
Robin

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Re:

Author: Stephanie Shirilan (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 10-06-03 19:03

I want to thank Robin Margolis and all the other contributors for their insights and comments. I am glad to see that this forum exists. In response to Robin's earlier query about positive and welcoming experiences at Conservative synagogues, I want to say that I just returned this evening from the conclusion of Yom Kippur services at Temple Emunah in Lexington, MA and was deeply touched byt the rich and eclectic atmosphere, the depth, dedication and level of learning demonstrated in the intensity of the prayer around me, and the palpable presence of an open and tolerant community. I am finding that perhaps for the first time there is a movement that I will be able to affiliate myself with. Earlier this week my husband and I held a belated baby naming ceremony for our seventeenth month old daughter at a Conservative egalitarian minyan at Brandeis University. Only since moving here to the US have we begun to feel some semblance of suport for our marital situation -- I was raised orthodox, and he was raised Catholic. I spent years in day school and studied for a time in Israel. In Canada the Conservative movement is several decades behind the movement here in terms of its tolerance of intermarrriage and its principles of equality, particularly regarding men and women. It is inspiring to see so many versed and learned congregants here, men and women, intermarried and not, sitting together in worship. I take pride and hope in this and hope that there will be a place for my and all our children as they grow up, to find warm faces and comforting spaces in which to celebrate Jewish life. I hope to hear more from all of you in your journeys. Shana Tova!

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Re:

Author: Pam (---.243.218.39.Dial1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net)
Date: 10-08-04 00:45

What a contrast between Rabbi Marder's beautiful appreciation of the non-Jewish spouses in her congregation, and "A Place in the Tent: Conservative Rabbis Tackle Intermarriage."

I am deeply thankful that my husband and I have found a Reform congregation where we live where I feel fully welcome and wholly part of the community. I am proud to be a Methodist and blessed to participate in Jewish life. I apologize to no one for loving my Jewish husband. And I wouldn't dream of joining a congregation that viewed my marriage as unfortunate. The Conservative rabbis' message is not one of genuine welcome, it says "you're a problem, but we sort of want you anyway."

No thank you.

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Re: announcing the marriage to a partner with a njon-jewish mother

Author: Stuart Braman (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: 01-09-05 16:16

We joined a conservative synagogue 20 years ago when our oldest son Jon turned 5. He and his fiancee announced their engagement 4 months ago and we were thrilled. We love Lisette in every way and she is a terrific match for Jon and they are very much in love. We have belatedly learned that our synagogue's policy is to not announce interfaith marriages (though Lisette has no other faith and is eager to lesarn more about her jewish roots). We have experienced this policy as a shutting door on a child who has grown up in the synagogue and who may well in time choose with his wife to raise their children as Jews. I'm wondering whether there any conservative synagogues who, in the spirit of keruv, have chosen to announce these "interfaith marriages"

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Re: announcing the marriage to a partner with a njon-jewish mother

Author: Rosie (---.as7.nwbl0.wi.core.com)
Date: 01-12-05 09:29

I'm not sure what you mean by "announcing" a marriage. I belong to a Conservative congregation which publishes weekly and monthly announcements in the bulletin about such things as the Sisterhood's book club meetings and the Tot Shabbat services, but births, bar mitzvahs, weddings, and deaths, usually don't appear on the page. Reading the announcements is not a major occupation of people in my synagogue, and I don't think they generally retaim what they read in the synagogue announcements for very long. In my city, the wedding announcements appear in the local Jewish newspaper, and judging from what I see there, it takes information from just about anyone who wants to send it in, including Tim and Mary O'Shaunessy who moved out of town thirty years ago and whose daughter is marrying Myron Schwartz of Tierra del Fuego.

More important, my Congregation welcomes and doesn't discriminate against families with a non-Jewish parent. We have a number of families in which the spouse converted, but also a number in which the spouse didn't convert. If Lisette went to my congregation, I know my rabbi would welcome here warmly and be more than happy to help her explore her Jewish roots and raise her children Jewishly.

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