Multiracial And Multicultural - Page 1

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Inviting your comments

Author: InterfaithFamily.com Editor (---.ne.mediaone.net)
Date: 02-01-02 08:28

Please comment on our article about multiracial and multicultural Jews.

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Great Article

Author: treehuggrrl (65.82.24.---)
Date: 02-01-02 10:54

Thanks for sharing such a wonderful article. I'm glad that there are opportunties for Jews-by-choice, regardless of ethnicity or race, to come together and build community. Although I'm white, as someone contemplating conversion, I sometimes feel like an outsider among ethnic Jews. I have my own diverse ethnic identity of which I am proud and don't feel an affinity for some of the cultural aspects of Judaism (food, language, etc.) most closely identified with Eastern Europe. Unfortunately, where I live in Tennessee, there are few Jews, even fewer Jews-by-choice, and no Jews of color or diverse ethnic background. Still it's reassuring that there are havens for Jewish diversity elsewhere in the country where "outsiders" truly feel welcome.

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Author: Bryce (---.mpowercom.net)
Date: 02-01-02 12:39

Treehuggrl,

You'd like my neigborhood. On one street, there are three synagogues. One is mainly Ashkenazi, one is Sephardi, and one is Iranian. There are a handful of African American Jews (all converts, I believe) who attend the Ashkenazi synagogue. The three synagogues get along very nicely, with many Jews doing a lot of cross-visiting. Newcomers, even gentile, are made felt welcome, and are inevitably invited for Sabbath meals at a member's house. There's only one hitch: the "welcoming" is applied to welcoming people as *people*. It is not applied to welcoming a gentile into a marital bond with a Jew. (I hope you consider that 3,000 year old rule not as close-minded or racist, but simply as a wise self-perpetuation policy.)

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Author: treehuggrrl (65.82.24.---)
Date: 02-01-02 13:52

Bryce,
You must live in a large city somewhere on the East or West Coast. I used to live in NYC and diversity is one of the aspects of big city life that I miss most.

In response to your comment, "It is not applied to welcoming a gentile into a marital bond with a Jew. (I hope you consider that 3,000 year old rule not as close-minded or racist, but simply as a wise self-perpetuation policy.)"

As a would-be convert, I would say that I am less concerned about being accepted as a non-Jew and more concerned about being welcomed into the Jewish community after the conversion. Putting aside arguments over what constitutes legal "conversion", it's important for the convert to retain ties to his/her own ethnic heritage and not totally immerse him/herself in another's cultural artifacts (don't read this to mean prescribed religious practices - I'm not talking about that) for the purpose of "fitting in". I can't tell you how many times I've heard my Jewish husband say "he doesn't look Jewish," or "what kind of Jewish name is that?"

I like the fact that somewhere out there black Jews are wearing dashikis and dreads and Korean Jews are eating kimchee on Pesach. It suggests that Judaism can be inclusive and universal. The composition of faces, names, and ethnicities may change, but the message and practice will not. I think that is a frightening prospect for many Jews, but for me it's an attraction.

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Embracing diversity

Author: Mina (---.rutgers.edu)
Date: 02-05-02 19:06

Treehuggrrl -- Thanks for your interesting comments. It strikes me as a really important point that we not only need to accept all Jews as Jews, but also to accept the variation in the rest of their ethnic/racial make-up. "You're just like us" is better than "you're not one of us." But "you're one of us, and we have differences among us" is the best of all.

I have to admit that I've never thought about the impact of comments about people looking Jewish and having/not having Jewish names. I wonder if the context in which these comments are made matters. There *is* this Eastern European Jewish culture that is predominant in the U.S., and is the source of a lot of joy and humor for those of us who are part of it. I would never make a comment about not looking Jewish that was directed at an African-American or Hispanic or Asian-American Jew, or a blonde friend who'd chosen Judaism. But is it hurtful if -- as happened recently -- I tell the story of how my great-grandmother refused to believe that my uncle (a born Ashkenazi Jew) was in fact Jewish because he looks so much like he could be one of the Kennedy's? This is not a polemical question. I actually do want to hear your perspective, because I definitely don't want to do things that make people feel unwelcome.

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Multiple Jewish Cultures

Author: Benjamin (---.rasserver.net)
Date: 02-05-02 22:34

treehuggrr1 - Mina makes some excellent points. In the U.S. there is this great tendency to equate all things Jewish with Eastern European Jewish culture. But Jews are much more diverse than that, from Ethiopian Jews to Asian Jews to Sephardic Jews, born Jewish, converted, etc. etc. It's not so apparent in this country, but a walk down the street in Israel confirms that there is no one Jewish "look". The one thing that has bound Jews together throughout all of Jewish history and across all continents has been the Torah. At one shul where I daven, there are African-American Jews, Iraqi Jews, Eastern European Jews and Israelis. We all look very different--the common denominator is our liturgy and commitment to Torah. I even read recently that there are a few hundred descendents of the Incas in Peru who have converted to Judaism and are now in the process of making aliyah to Israel.

There is an amazing book I'd like to recommend -- "Lovesong" by Julius Lester. (amazon.com or any similar site will have it) Lester is an African-American convert who is a professor at the University of Massachusetts in both the African-American studies and Jewish studies departments. "Lovesong" is one of the clearest and most eloquent expressions of what it means to be Jewish that I have ever seen. Incidentally, he remarks in the book that when he comes across other Jews, the more they are rooted in the religion, the more they fully accept him as Jewish, and the more they see being Jewish as simply a culture or ethnicity,the less they accept him as Jewish. In my own observations, this has also seemed generally to be true. So if you convert and someone doesn't see you as Jewish (I'm speaking now not for halachic reasons, but that they just can't accept that someone not born Jewish can really be Jewish), please realize that it is their own insecurities and misunderstandings that are the problem and nothing having to do with you.

Anyway, I recommend the book to you as a would-be convert; but it is really an inspiration for anyone, born Jewish, converted to Judaism or considering Judaism.

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Author: Bryce (---.ipt.aol.com)
Date: 02-06-02 01:45

Treehuggrrl wrote: "As a would-be convert, I would say that I am less concerned about being accepted as a non-Jew and more concerned about being welcomed
into the Jewish community after the conversion."

I understand completely, and can sympathise.

I suspect that the community's acceptance of a convert to Judaism is closely related to how they perceive the conversion requirements. If they think that their rabbis are willing to convert someone simply for the sake of marriage, or after only a short training period, or requiring only a smattering of Jewish practices and beliefs, then they are more likely to cast aspersions on the convert. These lax requirements are probably more prevalent in some denominations than others.

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conversion requirements

Author: Mina (---.rutgers.edu)
Date: 02-07-02 08:25

Hi, Bryce. Based on the experience of people I know, I think what Benjamin writes about the variation in reaction to Jews-by-choice is more likely than your supposition. I think most Jews realize that conversion to Judaism is not a simple matter, no matter what denomination you are converting through, and that no rabbi worth his or her salt -- again, of whatever denomination -- converts people just for the sake of marriage. Not that there aren't rabbis who aren't worth their salt :), just that most take conversion seriously, I believe. So, I don't think that born-Jews suspect that Jews-by-choice didn't really have to learn Judaism or don't take it seriously. Rather many ethnic Jews have so identified their Jewishness with Ashkenazi culture, are so unaware of what the religion has to offer themselves and/or are have let anti-Semitism affect them so that they can't understand why somebody would convert.

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Author: Bryce (---.mpowercom.net)
Date: 02-13-02 11:23

Hi Mina,
1. "no rabbi worth his or her salt -- again, of whatever denomination -- converts people just for the sake of marriage.
2. Not that there aren't rabbis who aren't worth their salt :) "

The smiley face you added was a nice humorous touch, but it doesn't help the fact that these two sentences effectively cancel each other out. As far as *which* denominations have a higher percentage of rabbis who take shortcuts in the conversion process, I'll leave that to the pundits out there.

Now, I will agree with you in that I also like Benjamin's explanation.

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rabbis and conversion

Author: Mina (---.rutgers.edu)
Date: 02-14-02 08:14

Bryce: My point was precisely the one you raise at the end of your post, i.e. whether some denominations are likely not to demand much of those who convert. That's why my two sentences don't cancel each other out. Yes, there are rabbis of whom I don't think much, but I doubt that they constitute a significant mass of any denomination. I was addressing what seemed to me to be your implicit -- or not so implicit -- point, i.e. that non-Orthodox rabbis were likely to convert people for the sake of marriage alone and/or to require little learning prior to conversion. Now, I'll grant you that you'd be very unlikely to find an Orthodox rabbi who would treat conversion this way (although there may be Orthodox rabbis who aren't worth their salt in other ways ), and there are probably some non-Orthodox who do, but I imagine very few -- not enough to create the phenomenon you imagine. There is no reason for anybody to assume that because somebody had a Conservative, Reform, or Reconstructionist conversion, they are not "really" Jewish. And, empirically, I've never heard any Jew of those denominations suggest that conversion was an easy task.

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testing software

Author: Ronnie Friedland (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 02-14-02 10:35

ignore posting

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Author: treehuggrrl (65.82.24.---)
Date: 02-18-02 16:58

What's ironic about this discussion for me is that I grew up in a community in New York State that was very Jewish - Reform, Conservative, and would you believe, Hassidic - as well as Catholic and Protestant. My father's paternal relations are German, his maternal relations a mix of English, French, and other Northern European nationalities. My mother was half Italian and half Irish (protestant). I've always felt ethnically closer to the Irish-Italian side of my family than the Germanic-Gaullic side - none of whom are very religious. My father's brother married a former Orthodox Jewish woman from Long Island and converted to Conservative Judaism. My cousins are Jewish. After my mother died, my father remarried a ethnically Jewish woman whose mother emigrated from Russia in the 1920s(and foreswore Judaism the minute she arrived).

Despite the exposure I've had to Jewish identity and culture in my life, as prospective convert, it's the cultural aspect that is hardest for me to assimilate. If I do convert, it will be because the Torah resonates with my spiritual beliefs. My conversion will be one of belief and practice, and not of ethnic or cultural identity. I liked Benjamin's reference to Julius Lester's observation that ethnically-oriented Jews are more likely to erect barriers than practicing Jews against Jews that don't look or behave or have the same cultural references as they do.

Even now, through my studies I know more about the Torah than my husband or anyone else in his family. Yet in the wake of my conversion, because of my given name (not biblical thus no Hebrew translation), the fact that my ancestors didn't live in the shtetl, my preference for pasta over kugel, my enjoyment of Celtic music (and names), etc., I will forever be a shiksa to my in-laws and others.

I am very comfortable around Jews living their cultural heritage, whatever that is, and I'd like to think that I can continue to live mine if I also choose to embrace Judaism.

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conversion

Author: Mina (---.trentn01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: 02-19-02 08:17

Treehuggrrll: I believe you when you say that you think you will always be a "shiksa" to your inlaws. There *are* people like that, although some such people do hange. But I want you to know that there are many others who will welcome you as a Jew with open arms. I have a number of friends who are Jews-by-choice, and I thank G-d for them every day. They bring new energies to our communities, and a great love of Judaism. I think the growing number of Jews-by-choice is one of the great things about being Jewish in the 21st century.

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treehuggrr1

Author: Benjamin (---.rasserver.net)
Date: 02-19-02 22:34

treehuggrr1: You are so right that you should not feel like you have to adopt the "culture" of Judaism, whatever that may be. In the end, it is adherence to Torah that counts. I think one way to look at it is in terms of "peoplehood" rather than culture. I have extremely little cultural overlap with Ethiopian Jews, or with Sephardic Jews--even relatively little overlap with Jews who live in the Ukraine from where my ancestors came. But we are all share the same peoplehood. And peoplehood, unlike one or another particular Jewish culture, is part of the Jewish religious concept. We are all part of the same people because we all stood at Sinai. But, as Anita Diamant once said, there was no herring and bagels at Sinai.

It seems to me that if you can find black-hatted Chassidic Jews eating kosher Korean food in Brooklyn, then there's no reason why you can't feel comfortable maintaining whatever cultural traditions that are already a part of you and are not inconsistent with Judaism.

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Mina

Author: Benjamin (---.rasserver.net)
Date: 02-19-02 23:14

Hi Mina,

In your post (#9), you mention my idea about secular/cultural Jews being less open to accepting converts as more likely than Bryce's idea about people being more or less accepting depending on the denomination you converted through. Actually, both ideas are likely and they are not mutually exclusive.

I almost hate to bring it up, because I know what an explosive topic this is; and it's almost impossible to discuss it without offending someone. But I think some clarity is needed (and as a preface to this I should say that I am not Orthodox, although I do sometimes daven at an Orthodox shul).

It is certainly true that many who go through non-Orthodox conversions are sincere and work hard at it. I have personally known many such people. But I have also known of quite a number of Orthodox converts who first converted through one of the other denominations. Without exception, they each said the Orthodox conversion was more rigorous in every respect including knowledge acquired, the time it took to convert, and what they were expected to do Jewishly once converted. (In my own family, I have seen a family member have a Conservative conversion of a child, which consisted of one visit with the Rabbi where almost no questions were asked concerning what the Jewish upbringing would be, where the parents never even appeared before the Beit Din--just the Rabbi did, and then came out and said they were all set to go to the mikveh--should an Orthodox Rabbi really be expected to accept this conversion?)

But it really comes down to, not the sincerity or seriousness of the conversion, but whose standards the conversion meets. The Talmud states "If a proselyte is prepared to accept the Torah, bar one commandment, we must not receive him." One can agree or disagree with that. But I certainly cannot fault a Rabbi (or any Jew) who takes all of Halachah (including this rule) to be binding, for not accepting a convert who has converted under a different set of standards, even if for the best and most sincere reasons. To expect a Rabbi to accept a conversion that does not require the same level of adherence to Jewish law (no matter how defensible that may be) is to expect him to adopt someone else's standards as his own. He has no right to expect a prospective convert to follow his interpretation of Judaism. And we have no right to expect him to accept the convert's own interpretation.

Incidentally, I've known a few Conservative converts who then wanted to become Orthodox. When they went to see the Orthodox Rabbis, none of the Rabbis they saw immediately said that an Orthodox conversion was needed upon learning that they had had a Conservative conversion. Rather, the Rabbis each asked a number of questions about the details of the conversion to find out what exactly it consisted of before they made any determinations.

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Author: mpfreed (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 02-20-02 04:42

Benjamin,

Your comments about the rigour of Orthodox conversions are very true. In the UK all Orthodox conversions must be conducted via the London Beth Din , which is acknowledged to maintain the strictest of standards, unlike I believe in the US where it is up to individual rabbis whose standards may vary. To get an Orthodox conversion in the UK is very difficult - yet I know many who have. A popular rabbi, often on the radio, whom most people would regard as Charedi, is one. Another I know is a Satmar chossid ! These conversions are recognised and accepted all over the Jewish world. Of course many who are converted via the other denominations are totally sincere. However, sincerity, on its own, may be insufficient to produce at the end of the conversion process a Jew happy and knowledgeable enough to be at home in his/her Judaism and to feel part and parcel of the Jewish people as a whole.

Jews are not racially (or even culturally) homogenous but are a people sharing the same history (and destiny?) and sharing the same tendency to 'bristle' when either they themselves or their fellow Jews are confronted by anti-Semitism.

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conversion

Author: Mina (---.rutgers.edu)
Date: 02-20-02 08:33

Benjamin: Bryce's comment was not about whether the Orthodox accept conversions of other denominations. It was about whether Conservatives doubt Conservative converts, Reform Jews doubt Reform converts, and Reconstructionist Jews doubt Reconstructionist converts -- the argument being that if you know that your rabbis have a tendency to do easy conversions, you're not going to accept the Jews-by-choice in your midst. Original quote: "If they think that their rabbis are willing to convert someone simply for the sake of marriage, or after only a short training period, or requiring only a smattering of Jewish practices and beliefs, then they are more likely to cast aspersions on the convert." I'm sure you're right that Orthodox conversions are more rigorous. How could they not be? But I doubt that the conversions (I mean adult conversions -- not what's done for a child) of other denominations are generally frivolous, or that adherents of these denominations tend to think so.

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Author: Bryce (---.mpowercom.net)
Date: 02-20-02 11:31

Friends, I gotta be honest: Mina is correct in the way she interpreted my words. (I mentioned this on another IFF link, too.)

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Author: Bryce (---.mpowercom.net)
Date: 02-20-02 13:11

Here's a true story that might interest you. And it actually fits this site!

A Jewish woman visits Israel, where she is inspired to learn about her heritage (and destiny? -- thank you, mpfreed). She decides to stay there for about a year and live much more Jewishly than she had growing up. Looking to get married, she falls in love with a religious black man there (Jewish, of course), but has no idea how to tell her father in California that her boyfriend is black. A friend suggests that she just send a picture of him. She does, and she gets a response from her father that sounded very upset. "But Dad, I thought you taught us that we should be "color-blind" with respect to love." The father responds: "It's not that he is black, but that he is black-hat!"

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Bryce

Author: Mina (---.rutgers.edu)
Date: 02-20-02 19:01

Thanks for the humorous post, and thanks for being a mentsch.

By the way, have y'all heard the new phrase (parallel to the Christian WWJD), "What would a mentsch do?" It's abbreviated of course as WWMD?

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