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Welcome to our discussions!

Author: InterfaithFamily.com Editors
Date: 03-27-02 13:53

We're pleased to tell you that we've changed our online discussions--and we invite you to join them! When you submit a message, it will be reviewed by our moderators before it is posted. While we will accept messages that are realistic about the challenges posed by interfaith relationships, we won't allow people to vent their opposition to intermarriage, as has happened in the past. Our goal is to make our discussions a welcoming and safe place for people dealing with interfaith relationships to turn for helpful information and support. So please--join our discussions!

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Re: reviews

Author: Ronnie Friedland
Date: 12-02-02 12:44

Please respond to our reviews, and tell us what you think about the film, book, author or director.

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Re: The Article that appeared in the Brown Daily Herald

Author: Sara
Date: 03-05-03 21:33

I couldn't agree with this author more. Even though I have a Christian mother who didn't convert to Judaism I was raised soley as a Jew by both parents. My friends who are mainly from the Reform and Conservative movements accept me as I was raised. Unfortunately, there are those out there who continue to challenge my identity as a Jew. The notion that a child is a Jew only if the mother is a Jew is completely outdated. I find it absolutely shameful and discriminatory that there are Jews who blindly adhere to this rule. I have found that a good portion can't even cite the reason behind the rule. It truly is not productive to continue to discriminate against other Jews. The fact that a person who has a great-grandmother who was a Jew on the mother's side is considered to be a Jew and I am not is a complete disgrace. Every religion has its hypocrisies. Unfortunately, this will continue to be the biggest hypocrisy in the Jewish religion.

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Re: Sara

Author: BobP
Date: 03-06-03 12:25

Hello Sara

In the secular world, we can try to have laws changed that we don't agree with. In the world of religion, that rarely happens, especially in "traditional Judaism". While I cannot quote chapter and verse, that Jewishness comes only from having a Jewish mother has been established from certain Torah verses. Those who disagreed with that interpretation eventually had the Reform movement add "patrilinial descent" to their laws.

You state "The notion that a child is a Jew only if the mother is a Jew is completely outdated." The reform movement (and I believe reconstructionist as well, but I'm not sure) agrees with you. Jews in other movements disagree, and would suggest that if you want to be considered Jewish, you would need to "officially" convert.

As a Jewish man married to a Christian woman, I don't consider their views as "shameful and discriminatory" or those who follow them to be hypocritical. A Catholic might find it hypocritical that only men can be priests and leaders, yet they tell women not to use birth control. Well those are the rules of that faith. A person who disagrees can try to get the rules changed (very unlikely), ignore them, or find a different faith.

To anyone in the reform movement, you are Jewish. Unless you wish to marry a stricter Jew, what others believe doesn't really matter.

PS.
It is possible that your father had you "converted" as an infant. My cousin and his wife recently had a baby, and at his bris the mohel recited a prayer that converted the baby to Judiasm since the mother is not Jewish. I know there would not have been a bris for you, but a conversion could have been done. Ask your dad.

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Re:

Author: Dave
Date: 03-27-03 00:44

I couldn't agree more. While I don't believe it is discriminatory to not recognize kids with only Jewish Dads as Jews, I do think it's kind of silly. Keep in mind the big majority of the Jewish population in America is Reform, or Reconstructionist, both of which recognize patrilineal descent. Only the Orthodox and Conservative movements do not recognize patrilineal descent, and they account for a rather small percentage of the Jewish community in America.
A Reform Jew who is a big advocate of patrilineal descent is movie director Garry Marshall. I don't know if any of you remember in the summer of 2001, Marshall directed a Disney movie, The Princess Diaries. It was a movie about a teenage girl from San Francisco whose father was a royal of an imaginary European country, Genovia. And because her father was royal, so was she.
Marshall stated in an interview that he is a big advocate of patrilineal descent, and personally thinks himself that it's silly to only recognize kids with Jewish Moms as Jews, and would feel the same way if only those with royal Moms could be royal.
I personally believe that is a brilliant way to make a statement. Even though it won't change the minds of those in the Orthodox and Conservative communities, at least its a way of standing up for what you believe in.

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Re: Garry Marshall's opinions about Jewish Law

Author: Felicia
Date: 03-28-03 07:07

Dave:

The fact that some random Hollywood director is an advocate of patrilineal descent is not likely to hold sway with Conservative and Orthodox Judaism, which btw, accounts for much more than a “small percentage” of Americans Jews. Also please note that even the Reform Movement outside of the USA rarely goes for the whole patrilineal acsent idea.

In any case, halacha (Jewish Law) is not determined by popular vote -- so I think BobP’s advice was right on the mark.

Felicia

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Re: Who is right, Dave or Felicia?

Author: Susan
Date: 03-28-03 08:54

[Edited by moderator]

I was curious about this question of whether Reform and Reconstructionist Jews are a "big majority" or not, so I checked out some statistics at
http://www.jewishdatabank.com/njps90/idehig.html#jden

"Reform" 41.4%
"Reconstructionist" 1.6%
Total "Reform" + "Reconstructionist" = 43%

"Conservative" 40.4%
"Orthodox" 6.8%
"Traditional" 3.2%
"Conservative" + "Orthodox" + "Traditional" only = 50.4%

"Just Jewish" (probably contains chasidic Jews whom others might call "Orthodox" but who don't like the term themselves) 5.2%
"Misc. Jewish" (also probably contains chasidic Jews) 1.4%
"Conservative" + "Orthodox" + "Traditional" including "Just Jewish and "Misc. Jewish" = 57%

If you prefer these numbers,
Reform = 42%
Conservative = 38%
Othodox = 7%
but 38% + 7% = 45% which is still greater than 42%.

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Re: patrilineal descent

Author: Dave
Date: 08-27-03 17:42

From what I understand, while the big majority or Reform and Reconstructionist Jews, have always believed in patrilineal descent, it wasn't really a big topic until the 30's and 40's and shortly beyond then.
From what I also understand, they recognized it even more so after the World War II. What was the reason for that? Because if you lived in Germany at that time, and had a Jewish father, you were considered Jewish by Hitler and his Nazi regime. While intermarriage was fairly rare back then, it still happened, and those who had only Jewish fathers were considered Jews, by Hitler, and for that reason they were killed. If the Orthodox and Conservatives don't want to recognize us with only Jewish Dads as Jews, that's fine. Because quite frankly who are we to say what others can and can not think of us as.
While I don't know for sure about the Orthodox, I do know that Conservative rabbis, at least a big majority of them endorse the right of us to consider ourselves as Jews without challenging us on an emotional/itentity level, but just wouldn't allow us to participate actively in their synagogue services, though they would be willing to invite us to be immeresed in a mikveh, like being converted, but since we considered and identified ourselves as Jews for such a long time, the more appropriate term for such an act is not a converison ceramony, but a ceramony of affirmation.
But I wanted to say that I don't believe that it should matter, and that kids of interfaith marriages should be able to be recognized as Jews reguardless of whether Mom or Dad is the Jewish parent

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Re: review pf SHIKSA

Author: Jay Ladin
Date: 06-23-04 20:42

The review of Christine Benvenuto's SHIKSA significantly misrepresents - I think, misunderstands - the main points of the book. (For example, it seems to have missed the fact that Ms. Benvenuto clearly and strongly argues that converts are not and should not be classed as non-Jews.) For reasons she does not explain, the reviewer has decided that her individual experience as a "Jew by Choice" is more significant than the experiences of the dozens of women interviewed in the book who have had difficulties in finding a positive connection to the Jewish community. She also writes off - without explanation - the many rabbis, educators and other experts quoted in the book who discuss the difficulties non-Jewish women may face vis a vis the Jewish community.

Like this review, Ms. Benvenuto's book is motivated by love of Judaism and the Jewish community. The reviewer seems to feel that her love requires denial of real-life difficulties the Jewish community faces as it struggles to grow to embrace the many non-Jewish women who are now part of Jewish families and communities. Ms. Benvenuto feels that her love for Judaism demands the opposite: honesty, and compassionate, courageous exploration of an often painful, but ultimately hopeful, subject.

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Re: review pf SHIKSA

Author: Catherine Fischer
Date: 06-24-04 23:18

I appreciate the opportunity to respond to Jay's opinion.

I realize that there are many people who have not been warmly welcomed by the Jewish community because they are intermarried, chose Judaism or have otherwise been marginalized. Unfortunately, the Jewish community is not perfect at living up to the ideals that we proclaim to be our guiding force (respect, acts of loving kindness and the commandment to treat the stranger as we would want to be treated). However, there are just as many Jews by birth who also feel excluded because of race or sexual orientation. It seems to be a very unfortunate human behavior to keep "the stranger" at arms length. I do not agree, however, that I am denying the “real-life difficulties the Jewish community faces as it struggles to grow to embrace the many non-Jewish women who are now part of Jewish families and communities."

Clearly, an individual’s personal experience will inevitably color her perception. My experience happened to be a very positive and nurturing one, allowing for a smooth transition into the Jewish community. Ms. Benvenuto’s experience was quite the opposite, and she went to great length to highlight the negatives. For example, some of her biblical references (e.g., Moses’ marriage to a Cushite woman) are the author’s interpretation of the negative way intermarriage is displayed, whereas others might interpret it differently.

I would agree that identifying difficult issues is helpful, as it enables people who might be experiencing similar situations to feel that they are not alone. However, it is my opinion that the repetitive experiences detailed in the book makes for a difficult read, one that does not offer personal solutions for those who are navigating the Jewish community for the first time. If the reader is not better able to move forward in their journey to Judaism, the power of the story is lost.

I do not know of a single rabbi who would not want to welcome more Jews into the community. Over the last few decades, for example, Outreach efforts have become an integral component of the Reform movement. Today, the Conservative movement is similarly trying to become more welcoming. As a result of these efforts, we have embraced thousands of Jews that otherwise would have been lost.

On the other hand, fear of assimilation remains in the Jewish community. Understanding this fear and vulnerability makes it easier to appreciate why behaviors of exclusion still occur. It is not out of cruelty that people shun marginalized and potential Jews. It is simply a matter of perception of what will best promote a healthy Jewish future. My view is that we all have an opportunity to strengthen Jewish continuity by bringing in and honoring our diverse and varied backgrounds.

One way to strengthen our community is to eliminate the term “Shiksa,” and to embrace and support all those who genuinely seek a connection to Judaism.

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