|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
Sex and the City - Page 1
|
Page 1
| What will happen next? |
Author: Kathy B.
Date: 07-14-03 09:40
So, Charlotte converted (in record time!) but before Harry had even proposed. I watch with baited breath every week wondering what will happen next. Meanwhile, our workplace discussion has been very interesting around this entire story line. Right now the questions are: When was Harry obligated to tell Charlotte that he would only marry a Jewish woman? Should Charlotte have converted before Harry even asked her to marry him? Is the relationship over for good? What will Charlotte do now? What were your thoughts about the Shabbos dinner disagreement? Was Harry in the wrong for not turning the TV off completely? Was Charlotte in the wrong for pulling the "Christ card"?
As you can see, I would love to talk about this. I can't wait to see your thoughts.
Kathy B. |
|
^ top
| Re: sex and the city |
Author: michelle
Date: 07-14-03 10:41
It is clear to me that Charlotte converted for the wrong reasons. She loves Harry, she feels desperate to get married and saw conversion as the way to seal the proposal deal. So Charlotte is not an innocent here. That said, it was unfair of Harry not to tell Charlotte by the second or third date that he wouldn't marry someone not Jewish. It was Harry's responsibility to put the truth out there early. That way, Charlotte (or any other woman) could decide what to do with the information. Who knows? Maybe Charlotte would not have pursued a relationship with Harry in the first place had she known his needs. Perhaps she could have even been spared the hurt. |
|
^ top
| Re: |
Author: Aubrey
Date: 07-14-03 21:14
I don't feel that she should have converted. I think that he should have been open enough to love her without her having to convert. But also if he was stuck in his beliefs, he should have gotten them out there early. So she could realize that he was not good for her. She definitely should not have converted. Obviously, she would not have a problem finding another guy, one who would be much more open minded. |
|
^ top
| Re: sex and the city |
Author: aviva
Date: 07-16-03 12:07
I don't think that Charlotte converted for the right reasons, but at the same time I can see why she made that decision. I believe that someone should convert because of a personal decision and commitment, not because of someone else's beliefs. At the same time, Charlotte is obsessed with marriage, and saw this as the one way to be able to stay with the man that she is involved with. Also, Harry was completely in the wrong by not telling her up front. there is nothing wrong with his beliefs, but it was his responsibility to be upfront about his marriage requirements. |
|
^ top
| Re: Charlotte & Harry |
Author: BobP
Date: 07-17-03 15:57
Thought I'd add a male viewpoint here.
First, it's barely mentioned, but Charlotte did not really have a "quicky" conversion. It's mentioned she attended "accelerated" classes (something like that), and in the last ep she mentioned studying for months. While it would be nice (from a Jewish standpoint) to have had a more realistic explaination of the process, I assume the writers needed to get her Jewish for the plot to come.
That said, she should not have converted for Harry (or anyone else). Once Harry told her he would only marry a Jew, she could have asked HIM if that meant he would marry her if she converted. Although not specifically mentioned, Harry had to know she was taking a conversion class. So he should have said something about that.
As to the "Christ card"... That's why it's wrong to convert for any reason except you WANT to be a Jew. Her saying to Harry I gave up Christ for YOU screams that she did it for the wrong reason.
But I must say (as a guy) that Harry is an a$$hole. Whether Shabbat means something to him or not, Charlotte obviously did a lot of work to make it special. And since it was her first "official" Shabbat, he should have been very appreciative of what she did. Instead he wants to watch a baseball game. C'mon - it's not like it was a hockey game or something important like that (if you look at my email address you'll get this).
Bob |
|
^ top
| Re: Charlotte & Harry |
Author: BobP
Date: 07-17-03 16:34
Thought I'd add a male viewpoint here.
First, it's barely mentioned, but Charlotte did not really have a "quicky" conversion. It's mentioned she attended "accelerated" classes (something like that), and in the last ep she mentioned studying for months. While it would be nice (from a Jewish standpoint) to have had a more realistic explaination of the process, I assume the writers needed to get her Jewish for the plot to come.
That said, she should not have converted for Harry (or anyone else). Once Harry told her he would only marry a Jew, she could have asked HIM if that meant he would marry her if she converted. Although not specifically mentioned, Harry had to know she was taking a conversion class. So he should have said something about that.
As to the "Christ card"... That's why it's wrong to convert for any reason except you WANT to be a Jew. Her saying to Harry I gave up Christ for YOU screams that she did it for the wrong reason.
But I must say (as a guy) that Harry is an a$$hole. Whether Shabbat means something to him or not, Charlotte obviously did a lot of work to make it special. And since it was her first "official" Shabbat, he should have been very appreciative of what she did. Instead he wants to watch a baseball game. C'mon - it's not like it was a hockey game or something important like that (if you look at my email address you'll get this).
Bob |
|
^ top
| Last Night's Episode |
Author: Kathy B.
Date: 07-21-03 10:48
A couple of people at lunch today were discussing last night's episode. One person said, "Well it looks like that is the end of the interfaith theme." I disagreed.
In spite of the fact that the rest of the women fully expect Charlotte to give up "The Jewish Thing" and go back to life as usual, Charlotte may surprise them, and perhaps us, by treating her conversion as the serious life altering event it is rather than the game of "getting her man" that she originally thought she was playing.
Sure, Charlotte ended up sitting next to the Prada guy last night at the play. But we do not know for sure that he is not Jewish or that it was anything more than a nice companion for the evening.
I say, "Stay tuned." The end of this adventure is nowhere in sight. What do you think?
Kathy B. |
|
^ top
| Re: Sex and The City |
Author: Staci Kennedy
Date: 07-25-03 11:22
I just read the discussion about Charlotte and Harry. While it is just a TV show and not real life, I feel compelled to mention what I feel was Harry's big mistake. As readers of Interfaith Family know, Judaism has a continuum of worship. Harry was, of course, the cultural Jew who only cares that his children are Jewish to satisfy his (dead) mother. He'll give them Chanukka presents, but will probably never enroll them in Hebrew school or take them to shull. Charlotte went ahead with what looked like an orthodox (or very conservative) conversion, never understanding that Harry had no interest in keeping Shabbat, etc. So while she jumped the gun with conversion, the whole Jewish topic in their relationship was a joke, b/c they never actually understood each other's religious needs -- Harry's being cultural, and Charlotte's being religious/spiritual.
Staci |
|
^ top
| Re: Charlotte and Harry |
Author: Grant
Date: 07-26-03 12:41
One item I enjoyed about this plot line is that it showed the Rabbi's resistance to Charlotte in the beginning. In more recent history, Judaism has largely gone toward a policy of non-evangelism (the exception being some of the groups such as Chabad Lubavitch). This is related to the root of the problem here.
It seems that religious beliefs are not really explored in the Charlotte and Harry plot line. There is no attempt at showing that religious conversion means accepting a new belief system, in this case accepting that Christ is a live "appearance" of Gd on earth versus a very wise sage who re-interpreted the Jewish teaching for those disenfranchised with it or any other vision of what the fundamental difference is. Those differences must become a heart-felt part of one's belief structure when changing something so native as religious beliefs. To say that Charlotte "gave up Christ" says to me that it was important enough to her from the start that she didn't truly believe her new-found religion in its whole form, that including the belief that the Messiah has not yet come. If one believes that the Messiah has come already and if it is Christ who was that Messiah, then one is (by definition supplied by many rabbis I've heard address comparative religions) not truly Jewish.
This doesn't mean to discount those who choose to identify as Jewish by virtue of heritage or culinary standards, just to work with those who identify as Jewish for religious beliefs. Hopefully, Charlotte will figure out her true beliefs over a few episodes. She needs to remember that our true values and beliefs are not what we say they are, they are what we actually do. |
|
^ top
| SPOILER for 7/27 |
Author: Mimosa
Date: 07-27-03 19:06
I cried, oh, I did indeed...
THEY FIXED IT!!! Charlotte and Harry are together... I think they'll be able to work all this out, you know, maybe it's blind optimism, but in spite of Charlotte's history of superficiality, I still see that he and she together have found acceptance and understanding.
Ha! All this on a TV show.
Of course I watched with particular interest as I am a totally non-religious, unaffiliated, agnostic gal seriously and monogamously involved with an atheist Jewish man. When we have kids, we will raise them Jewish, but they will be exposed to the celebration of Christmas because my family does keep it, although it is quite secular and tends to revolve around food. But our children will have little exposure to the practice of Christianity (other than the awareness we hope to give them of the religions of the world) unless they choose to later in life for their own study. |
|
^ top
| SPOILER for 7/27 |
Author: Mimosa
Date: 07-27-03 19:07
I cried, oh, I did indeed...
THEY FIXED IT!!! Charlotte and Harry are together... I think they'll be able to work all this out, you know, maybe it's blind optimism, but in spite of Charlotte's history of superficiality, I still see that he and she together have found acceptance and understanding.
Ha! All this on a TV show.
Of course I watched with particular interest as I am a totally non-religious, unaffiliated, agnostic gal seriously and monogamously involved with an atheist Jewish man. When we have kids, we will raise them Jewish, but they will be exposed to the celebration of Christmas because my family does keep it, although it is quite secular and tends to revolve around food. But our children will have little exposure to the practice of Christianity (other than the awareness we hope to give them of the religions of the world) unless they choose to later in life for their own study. |
|
^ top
| Re: Spoiler for 7/27 |
Author: Kathy B.
Date: 07-28-03 07:12
I didn't cry, but I did stand up and cheer!
I am happy that they are back together and that Charlotte and Harry both seem to have come to their senses and realize they are the best thing for each other. I am happy that Charlotte's conversion was a serious one (unlike what her friends and some people in my office might have thought!) I am happy that in just a few short weeks, the show has managed to illustrate a serious subject in a fairly serious way.
Is it all perfect - of course not. But once again I am looking forward to next week with anticipation.
Kathy B. |
|
^ top
| Re: Last Night's Episode |
Author: maxdog
Date: 01-26-04 02:05
Anyone see this weeks episode? What happened? |
|
The language of Judaism. Used in prayer in most synagogues and the official language of the state of Israel. Also refers to Jews, especially before they entered Israel and were given the Torah, as in "the ancient Hebrews."
Spiritual leader and teacher. Typically, but not always, leads a congregation.
The Jewish Sabbath, from sunset on Friday to sunset on Saturday.
The Jewish Sabbath, from sunset on Friday to sunset on Saturday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
Send to Friend
Save To My Profile
