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Yossi Beilin On Secular Conversion - Page 1
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| Secular Conversion |
Author: InterfaithFamily.com Editor (---.home.net)
Date: 06-12-00 13:31
In this week's Dialogue and Debate, Yossi Beilin asks, "Why is someone like me allowed to be an agnostic Jew while a convert to Judaism is not? Why must a non-Jewish atheist or agnostic go to a rabbi in order to become a Jewish atheist or agnostic? In Israel, there are now hundreds of thousands of people, mostly family members of new immigrants from the former Soviet Union, who are not inclined to undergo a religious conversion but still live their lives as Jews...We must give these people, those who wish to be identified as Jews, the right to join the Jewish people on the basis of their own self-definition..."
What do you think?? |
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Author: mpfreed (---.jakinternet.co.uk)
Date: 01-14-01 11:58
Yossi Beilin asks, "Why is someone like me allowed to be an agnostic Jew while a convert to Judaism is not? "
Because it's odds on that Beilin had some sort of religious upbringing (which he has chosen to discard) whereas this is unlikely for the average non-Jewish atheist or agnostic. In spite of his beliefs (or lack of them) his mother was presumably Jewish giving him the status of Jew - whether he likes it or not - and thus there is always hope !
He goes on to say "In Israel, there are now hundreds of thousands of people, mostly family members of new immigrants from the former Soviet Union, who are not inclined to undergo a religious conversion but still live their lives as Jews.."
Wrong. They may live their lives as (irreligious) Israelis - but not as Jews. Even Beilin should know the difference.
Murray Freedman |
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Author: Benjamin (---.dsl.broadviewnet.net)
Date: 04-23-01 11:09
Yossi Bellin simply misses the point. Someone may be born Jewish and choose not to practice Judaism. That is their choice, and a religious Jew would hope that, at some point in their lives, given that they have already been born a Jew, they also choose to practice their religion. However, for someone not born a Jew, why would any competent Rabbi want to bring someone into Klal Yisroel if, from the start, they have no intention of practicing Judaism?
If, as Bellin suggests, Judaism can ultimately be reduced to a mere culture or ethnicity (thereby eliminating about 90% of the basis of the Jewish tradition!), then conversion is simply not possible. I may feel like I'm really Italian, eat Italian foods, identify with other Italians, etc. But I will never be, ethnically speaking, an Italian, no matter how hard I try. It is a genetic impossibility. Similarly, one cannot become an "ethnic" Jew if one is not born a Jew. One can however, become part of the Jewish people by embracing the Covenant of the Jewish religion.
Bellin might do well to read the book of Ruth where the classic definition of Judaism and conversion to Judaism ("Your people shall be my people AND your G-d shall be my G-d") is given. The Jewish religion does not exist in a vacuum without the notion of peoplehood. At the same time, the notion of peoplehood without the religious dimension is ultimately shallow and, as history has shown over and over again, unsustainable in the long-term. |
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| test of software |
Author: IFF editor (---.ne.mediaone.net)
Date: 12-18-01 10:40
Ignore, this is just a test. |
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| “Return to sender” To all the Jewish born “Atheis |
Author: AL Palmer (---.delv.east.verizon.net)
Date: 02-08-02 11:54
There is a commandment (from 613 others) written in the Torah (old testament) :
"If you encounter an ox of your enemy or his donkey
wandering, you shall return it to him repeatedly." (23:4)
We live in an era when it's hard to find a real atheist. Once, there was a
young Jew from the shtetl (village) who had set his heart on being an
apikorus (atheist). He traveled to the city of Odessa in the hope of
meeting Yosel the apikorus - a famous atheist. On his arrival in the big
city, he asked to be directed to the house of Yosel the apikorus, and he
soon found himself standing before the door of the famous man. Wafting
through the door came the familiar lilting tune of someone learning
gemara. He knocked on the door, and the tune abruptly stopped. "Come
in!" called a voice. He gingerly pushed the door open, and there, seated
in front of him, was an old Jew with a long flowing white beard and peyos.
"Excuse me for disturbing you. I'm looking for Yosel the apikorus." The
old Jew paused, looked at him, and said "You've found him. I am Yosel
the apikorus." "But...but..." he spluttered, "But, but the beard, the peyos.
The gemara!" Yosel replied to him "I'm Yosel the apikorus, not Yosel the
ignoramus."
Nowadays it's difficult to find an authentic card-carrying atheist. They're
an endangered species, because most of us don't really know what it is
that we don't believe in. Our doubts are not based on knowledge; rather
we have become strangers in a strange land, unlettered in our own
heritage. Mohammed called us "The People of The Book." The problem
is that most of us can't read The Book anymore, let alone understand it.
We are like sheep who have strayed so far from home that we have
forgotten that a home even exists. "If you encounter an ox of your enemy
or his donkey wandering, you shall return it to him repeatedly." If the
Torah shows such concern for the welfare of someone's property,
commanding us to go out of our way to return his animal to him even a
hundred times over, surely all the more so must we be concerned to
return a person to himself, to try and reach out to our brothers and
sisters who have lost their identity as Jews, to show them the beauty
and depth of the Torah. In our times, when so many of us are like sheep
lost in a spiritual wilderness, when we have no idea how to get back
home, or even that there is a home, it is a tremendous mitzva for those
who can be shepherds to guide the lost and the benighted on the path
that leads home to the light of Jewish self-awareness.
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God. In traditional Jewish circles, it is forbidden to write or say God\'s name, so God is typically written with the vowel (o) replaced by a hyphen.
A religious obligation or commandment; a good deed.
Spiritual leader and teacher. Typically, but not always, leads a congregation.
The first five books of the Hebrew Bible, or the scroll that contains them.
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